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Another day, another mass shooting in America

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    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Originally posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    Okay? But again, what do we do about murders with handguns. How do we fix that?
    Are you advocating taking everyone's guns? If so good luck with that.


    Though better background checks, liscensing requirements, and longer waiting periods would all help with out ever taking guns away for ordinary law abiding citizens. Wouldn't be perfect but sure would be a step in teh right direction.



    I'd settle for baby step on bans on assault weapons, armor piercing rounds, high capacity magazines and semi-automatics that can be converted to full auto relatively easily. I suspect there would be a a lot of support for such measure among the general population.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

    Comment


      Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

      Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
      Are you advocating taking everyone's guns? If so good luck with that.


      Though better background checks, liscensing requirements, and longer waiting periods would all help with out ever taking guns away for ordinary law abiding citizens. Wouldn't be perfect but sure would be a step in teh right direction.



      I'd settle for baby step on bans on assault weapons, armor piercing rounds, high capacity magazines and semi-automatics that can be converted to full auto relatively easily. I suspect there would be a a lot of support for such measure among the general population.
      If ones view is that we have to ban all assault weapons to stop mass shootings, then why would it be any different with handguns and murders? Whats the difference?
      Originally posted by Bub View Post
      Stopping it isn't going to happen, not with the millions of handguns out there. How about we start with penalties if you're caught with an unregistered handgun that are so severe that even criminals would think twice about having one? Re-registration of guns along with updated background checks every few years, plus mental health screening. We should do everything we can to keep the guns in the hands of responsible people, but that's hard to do when the NRA is out there trying to get as many people as possible owning one.
      YES

      But what about the assault weapons already out there? Can we actually stop mass shootings with assault weapon bans?

      Originally posted by Texsahara View Post
      So? Assault weapons are the drug of choice for mass shooters and are not a necessary part of a civilized society. Hand guns need to be addressed by universal background checks and waiting periods, closing any loopholes to get around those changes, people that own firearms should be certified and licensed. Laws like those in NY or NJ should be federal laws. 60% of the guns recovered in Chicago shootings came from out of state. States with stronger gun laws have fewer gun deaths. It's a right wing myth that the left wants to take your guns away.
      DO you think NY or NJ need to strengthen their laws or no?

      Comment


        Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

        Originally posted by fightingirish595 View Post
        If ones view is that we have to ban all assault weapons to stop mass shootings, then why would it be any different with handguns and murders? Whats the difference?
        The difference? One has very large popular support among a vast majority of Americans, the other no so much.

        https://www.businessinsider.com/assa...-reform-2018-2

        70% of Americans want stricter assault weapon laws — more than ever before
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.bcd06f8b8b0a

        1 in 5 wants to repeal 2nd amendment
        So the difference is 7 in 10 would like to tougher laws on assault weapons, while only 1 in 5 wants to get rid of all guns.
        Baseball is life;
        the rest is just details.

        Comment


          Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

          Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
          The difference? One has very large popular support among a vast majority of Americans, the other no so much.

          https://www.businessinsider.com/assa...-reform-2018-2
          Philosophically Whats the difference? Ban assault weapons=stop mass shootings, tougher laws on handguns=less murders with handguns? Seems to be an inconsistency there.

          Are we saying as a society that supports handguns that we accept there might be some deaths by handguns? because if so, its really hypocritical to say we need to ban assault weapons to stop mass shootings... Unless of course were admitting that mass shootings will still happen even with a ban.

          Comment


            Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

            Originally posted by fightingirish595 View Post
            Philosophically Whats the difference? Ban assault weapons=stop mass shootings, tougher laws on handguns=less murders with handguns? Seems to be an inconsistency there.

            Are we saying as a society that supports handguns that we accept there might be some deaths by handguns? because if so, its really hypocritical to say we need to ban assault weapons to stop mass shootings... Unless of course were admitting that mass shootings will still happen even with a ban.
            People want cars even though they cause a lot of deaths. Not too many people want street legal drag racing down the local roads. That's the closest analogy I can come up with on short notice.


            The reality is there great support in the general population to limit certain types of weapons. There is not a lot of support to get rid of all guns. I'm not sure where you are going with this.
            Baseball is life;
            the rest is just details.

            Comment


              Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

              Originally posted by fightingirish595 View Post
              I’m not talking about mass shootings. I’m talking murders with guns. Most of them are being done with handguns. How do we stop that, or do they not matter as much as mass shootings?
              Or we can talk about things that can be done instead of dismissing them because of what they don't do. Heller unequivocally established the individual's right to own a handgun for self-defense inside the home. It also unequivocally established that restrictions may be placed around that right. The NRA and the Republican party have consistently opposed any such restrictions, describing them as attacks on the Second Amendment - when, in fact, they are permitted under that amendment as a matter of law.
              Russian warship, go **** yourself

              Comment


                Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

                Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
                People want cars even though they cause a lot of deaths. Not too many people want street legal drag racing down the local roads. That's the closest analogy I can come up with on short notice.


                The reality is there great support in the general population to limit certain types of weapons. There is not a lot of support to get rid of all guns. I'm not sure where you are going with this.
                Do you think an assault weapon ban will stop mass shootings altogether?

                Comment


                  Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

                  Originally posted by Bub View Post
                  Stopping it isn't going to happen, not with the millions of handguns out there. How about we start with penalties if you're caught with an unregistered handgun that are so severe that even criminals would think twice about having one? Re-registration of guns along with updated background checks every few years, plus mental health screening. We should do everything we can to keep the guns in the hands of responsible people, but that's hard to do when the NRA is out there trying to get as many people as possible owning one.
                  Where is the cost-benefit analysis on this? How many are going to hit the repeated screen compared to the tens of millions of original permits that will be done if all weapons are registered? Of that tiny number, how many are actually a risk to hurt someone? We all know how imperfect these screens are, so why keep doing them over and over if not just to make it difficult to own a gun? Exactly what is the expected bottom line benefit here, other than the usual "we must do SOMETHING" argument? Yet tens of millions of honest, normal people are going to be forced to jump through these hoops every few years. This is where it crosses the line from common sense regulation to harassment of the great number of responsible gun owners. This type of poorly thought-out proposal is why gun-owners resist every step towards control of guns.
                  "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

                  Comment


                    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

                    Originally posted by fightingirish595 View Post
                    Do you think an assault weapon ban will stop mass shootings altogether?
                    No, but I think it will limit the damage.
                    Baseball is life;
                    the rest is just details.

                    Comment


                      Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

                      Originally posted by theDurk View Post
                      Where is the cost-benefit analysis on this? How many are going to hit the repeated screen compared to the tens of millions of original permits that will be done if all weapons are registered? Of that tiny number, how many are actually a risk to hurt someone? We all know how imperfect these screens are, so why keep doing them over and over if not just to make it difficult to own a gun? Exactly what is the expected bottom line benefit here, other than the usual "we must do SOMETHING" argument? Yet tens of millions of honest, normal people are going to be forced to jump through these hoops every few years. This is where it crosses the line from common sense regulation to harassment of the great number of responsible gun owners. This type of poorly thought-out proposal is why gun-owners resist every step towards control of guns.
                      I have to register my vehicle every two years and get it inspected annually so it's safe for me and anybody who either rides in it or gets in my way. Nothing is perfect but 10,000 murders a year with guns in this country shouldn't be considered normal and acceptable. What's your solution?
                      Let the kids play.

                      Comment


                        Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

                        Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
                        No, but I think it will limit the damage.
                        The next debate though is the AR-15. What do we do with that. As it’s not an assault rifle and wouldn’t be covered with an assault rifle ban.


                        Bump stocks=bad

                        It is extremely hard to obtain a fully automatic weapon in this country legally already

                        Edit: never mind. I said assault weapon, which includes semi automatic
                        Last edited by fightingirish595; 11-09-18, 07:24 AM.

                        Comment


                          Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

                          Originally posted by Bub View Post
                          I have to register my vehicle every two years and get it inspected annually so it's safe for me and anybody who either rides in it or gets in my way. Nothing is perfect but 10,000 murders a year with guns in this country shouldn't be considered normal and acceptable. What's your solution?
                          BS, Bub. What goes on with cars is nothing like what a gun review is like. Few states do safety checks anymore, it's just emissions. The percentage of cars causing fatalities dwarfs those of guns by percentage. Yet NO rexamination of drivers occurs past the original driver's test. Do you want to take a driver's test every few years? A handgun for self defense sits in a safe.

                          Your last two sentences are what I really object to. I have advocated many reforms that make sense, mainly summed up as New Jersey for all. That's cost effective. I object to your unproductive.....no, counter productive idea of repeated procedures with zero evidence of effectiveness. I got my first gun at 14, By now you would have had me go through this how many times?

                          Don't propose something with so little thought in it. You just diminish chances of actually making progress.
                          "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

                          Comment


                            Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

                            Originally posted by theDurk View Post
                            BS, Bub. What goes on with cars is nothing like what a gun review is like. Few states do safety checks anymore, it's just emissions. The percentage of cars causing fatalities dwarfs those of guns by percentage. Yet NO rexamination of drivers occurs past the original driver's test. Do you want to take a driver's test every few years? A handgun for self defense sits in a safe.

                            Your last two sentences are what I really object to. I have advocated many reforms that make sense, mainly summed up as New Jersey for all. That's cost effective.. I object to your unproductive.....no, counter productive idea of repeated procedures with zero evidence of effectiveness. I got my first gun at 14, By now you would have had me go through this how many times?

                            Don't propose something with so little thought in it. You just diminish chances of actually making progress.
                            Whatever this is, please explain it a little. What does it do to reduce gun homocides?
                            Let the kids play.

                            Comment


                              Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

                              Any analogy between guns and cars is like comparing apples and watermelon.


                              Over the past decade cars have been made substantially safer with many, many new safety features now coming as standards. This was done mainly through responsible legislation. Also cars need to be registered and drivers licensed. Drivers need to pass both a road and a written test. Granted there is little followup as we age but there is least initial licensing and testing. There are also state and local police who patrol the streets looking for violators and punishing them as needed.


                              With the NRA and the politicians on their payroll preventing and meaningful legislation controlling the gun industry, we have the situation we are in today.
                              The public need to tell the politicians that there needs to be logical and sound legislation controlling the gun industry or they will be ousted from their lucrative, cushy jobs.


                              Andy
                              Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

                              Comment


                                Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

                                Originally posted by Bub View Post
                                Whatever this is, please explain it a little. What does it do to reduce gun homocides?
                                NJ's laws are among the most restrictive in the country, but they don't do what you ask for (the part that I objected to.)

                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Jersey

                                Pages of restrictions including AR-15 ban, but firearms license is one-time, and process repeated only for new purchases...not "every few years".If you do it right, anything bad enough to yank your permit should do so automatically, without forcing every honest, sane gun-owner to go through a reexamination without cause. I'm willing to do it once; every few years, including 'mental health check' (what is that, anyway?) makes no sense unless it is so cursory as to be meaningless, like what you do for your car that you are so proud of.

                                I would bet reexamining drivers would save more lives than reexamining gun owners, but we don't see that many people people calling for that.
                                "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

                                Comment

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