Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

[Texsahara]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

Operation Warp Speed is a great name and what they are doing is remarkable. George Takai made a cute tweet as he often does. That's about all I see.

[Maynerd]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

I have been with you on some of your previous false equivalencies, but this one deserves the name.

I'm not saying anything is equivalent. I'm just saying that if you can't trust the federal government to make decisions about health care, then you CAN'T TRUST the government to make decisions about health care. If you want the government to be the great arbiter of care, you don't get to say "....except in this case."

Providing health care with a giant, overstuffed federal bureaucracy should NOT make us more trusting of their effectiveness. Quite the opposite.

I'm with you all on not trusting a vaccine that is rushed to the point of use. Where I differ is that I ALSO don't trust the federal government with non-vaccine related decisions affecting my health. I don't trust them to be prompt or effective. That holds true with routine medical care, and with a Covid vaccine. Many of you want them to take a greater role in routine health care decisions, but suddenly don't trust them in this specific case.

Either the government is capable of making such decisions, or they're not. I think 'not.' And, I think that all the time, not just with regard to a vaccine. Seriously, many of you are saying the federal government should play a significant role in health care for all Americans, but that you don't trust them with a vaccine, and wouldn't take the vaccine if it's deployed. Don't you see how inconsistent this is?

Or, are we going to have the ACA when there's a Democratic administration, and then suspend it when there's a Republican administration, because we don't trust them any more?

[philleotardo]

I'm not saying anything is equivalent. I'm just saying that if you can't trust the federal government to make decisions about health care, then you CAN'T TRUST the government to make decisions about health care. If you want the government to be the great arbiter of care, you don't get to say "....except in this case."

Providing health care with a giant, overstuffed federal bureaucracy should NOT make us more trusting of their effectiveness. Quite the opposite.

I'm with you all on not trusting a vaccine that is rushed to the point of use. Where I differ is that I ALSO don't trust the federal government with non-vaccine related decisions affecting my health. I don't trust them to be prompt or effective. That holds true with routine medical care, and with a Covid vaccine. Many of you want them to take a greater role in routine health care decisions, but suddenly don't trust them in this specific case.

Either the government is capable of making such decisions, or they're not. I think 'not.' And, I think that all the time, not just with regard to a vaccine. Seriously, many of you are saying the federal government should play a significant role in health care for all Americans, but that you don't trust them with a vaccine, and wouldn't take the vaccine if it's deployed. Don't you see how inconsistent this is?

Or, are we going to have the ACA when there's a Democratic administration, and then suspend it when there's a Republican administration, because we don't trust them any more?

It’s not inconsistent. They/we will trust a vaccine when it emerges from a more science-trusting government.

Therefore, not from a Republican one.

[YankeePride1967]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

It’s not inconsistent. They/we will trust a vaccine when it emerges from a more science-trusting government.

Therefore, not from a Republican one.

This. If one can’t see why we won’t trust a vaccine from this administration I honestly have. I idea what to say

[JL25and3]

I'm not saying anything is equivalent. I'm just saying that if you can't trust the federal government to make decisions about health care, then you CAN'T TRUST the government to make decisions about health care. If you want the government to be the great arbiter of care, you don't get to say "....except in this case."

Providing health care with a giant, overstuffed federal bureaucracy should NOT make us more trusting of their effectiveness. Quite the opposite.

I'm with you all on not trusting a vaccine that is rushed to the point of use. Where I differ is that I ALSO don't trust the federal government with non-vaccine related decisions affecting my health. I don't trust them to be prompt or effective. That holds true with routine medical care, and with a Covid vaccine. Many of you want them to take a greater role in routine health care decisions, but suddenly don't trust them in this specific case.

Either the government is capable of making such decisions, or they're not. I think 'not.' And, I think that all the time, not just with regard to a vaccine. Seriously, many of you are saying the federal government should play a significant role in health care for all Americans, but that you don't trust them with a vaccine, and wouldn't take the vaccine if it's deployed. Don't you see how inconsistent this is?

Or, are we going to have the ACA when there's a Democratic administration, and then suspend it when there's a Republican administration, because we don't trust them any more?

Maynerd, your premise is completely wrong. Of course one can pick and choose between different situations.

[theDurk]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

I'm not saying anything is equivalent. I'm just saying that if you can't trust the federal government to make decisions about health care, then you CAN'T TRUST the government to make decisions about health care. If you want the government to be the great arbiter of care, you don't get to say "....except in this case."

Providing health care with a giant, overstuffed federal bureaucracy should NOT make us more trusting of their effectiveness. Quite the opposite.

I'm with you all on not trusting a vaccine that is rushed to the point of use. Where I differ is that I ALSO don't trust the federal government with non-vaccine related decisions affecting my health. I don't trust them to be prompt or effective. That holds true with routine medical care, and with a Covid vaccine. Many of you want them to take a greater role in routine health care decisions, but suddenly don't trust them in this specific case.

Either the government is capable of making such decisions, or they're not. I think 'not.' And, I think that all the time, not just with regard to a vaccine. Seriously, many of you are saying the federal government should play a significant role in health care for all Americans, but that you don't trust them with a vaccine, and wouldn't take the vaccine if it's deployed. Don't you see how inconsistent this is?

Or, are we going to have the ACA when there's a Democratic administration, and then suspend it when there's a Republican administration, because we don't trust them any more?

I'm not happy about it, because I have my small-government libertarian leanings. Unfortunately, there are some things that government has to do in order to protect the populace (John Stuart Mill; "the freedom of your fist ends where my face begins") The private sector has succeeded in proving they will not stop until their business model is limited to only insuring the people who don't get sick. Everybody else is left on their own. You cannot deny that many countries have achieved working universal medical systems. I don't personally endorse MFA and have said so many times, but I see absolutely zero inconsistency with thinking it can work and not trusting a Trump vaccine.

Finally, I still have hope that the next Republican president will be more trustworthy than the current disaster. It should be obvious soon, if it isn't already, to all of them that if they do not address the needs of the people for access to affordable health care, they are going to lose every November.

[Tyler Durden]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

I'm not saying anything is equivalent. I'm just saying that if you can't trust the federal government to make decisions about health care, then you CAN'T TRUST the government to make decisions about health care. If you want the government to be the great arbiter of care, you don't get to say "....except in this case."

Providing health care with a giant, overstuffed federal bureaucracy should NOT make us more trusting of their effectiveness. Quite the opposite.

I'm with you all on not trusting a vaccine that is rushed to the point of use. Where I differ is that I ALSO don't trust the federal government with non-vaccine related decisions affecting my health. I don't trust them to be prompt or effective. That holds true with routine medical care, and with a Covid vaccine. Many of you want them to take a greater role in routine health care decisions, but suddenly don't trust them in this specific case.

Either the government is capable of making such decisions, or they're not. I think 'not.' And, I think that all the time, not just with regard to a vaccine. Seriously, many of you are saying the federal government should play a significant role in health care for all Americans, but that you don't trust them with a vaccine, and wouldn't take the vaccine if it's deployed. Don't you see how inconsistent this is?

Or, are we going to have the ACA when there's a Democratic administration, and then suspend it when there's a Republican administration, because we don't trust them any more?

The answer to this is simple for me: I trust the government (regardless of who's in power) to administer a program like Medicare because they've done it for so very long and have done it more efficiently than private insurance:

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10....0.013390/full/

The worst, most complicated and inefficient parts of Medicare are the "Medicare Advantage" pieces which are really just subsidized private insurance (thanks Dubya).

Private insurance has played a significant role in all our lives and screwed over more friends and family than I care to count in one way or another, so it's a fantasy to suggest we have absolute autonomy over health decisions with our current system.

As long as both private health insurance companies and Donald J Trump are motivated by profits above people's health and wellbeing, then neither can be given the benefit of the doubt to make decisions in our best interests.

[YankeePride1967]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

I trust the government more than a corporate CEO looking to maximize profits

[Maynerd]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

I trust the government more than a corporate CEO looking to maximize profits

So then, you'll be first in line for the vaccine, no?

[Maynerd]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

It’s not inconsistent. They/we will trust a vaccine when it emerges from a more science-trusting government.

Therefore, not from a Republican one.

So, you'll want to suspend the ACA when the GOP is in power? Because, you only trust the government when it's controlled by the Democrats?

[Tyler Durden]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

The private sector has succeeded in proving they will not stop until their business model is limited to only insuring the people who don't get sick. Everybody else is left on their own. You cannot deny that many countries have achieved working universal medical systems. I don't personally endorse MFA and have said so many times, but I see absolutely zero inconsistency with thinking it can work and not trusting a Trump vaccine.

I'm obviously a big supporter of M4A, but I'd also settle for a system where private insurance and Medicare coexist but all private insurance providers are required to be non-profit.

Healthcare and prisons are 2 parts of society where profits should fundamentally not be part of the equation.

[philleotardo]

So, you'll want to suspend the ACA when the GOP is in power? Because, you only trust the government when it's controlled by the Democrats?

I trust it less with the Republicans. By far. And my distrust is validated by each party’s approach to voting.

[ojo]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

The conversation was about a vaccine, and now it’s shifted to trusting the government to implement a M4A plan?

Good grief.

[Tyler Durden]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

The conversation was about a vaccine, and now it’s shifted to trusting the government to implement a M4A plan?

Good grief.

Would you rather be talking about George Takei?

[Maynerd]

Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

The conversation was about a vaccine, and now it’s shifted to trusting the government to implement a M4A plan?

Good grief.

The conversation was about not trusting the government to be honest and thorough with a vaccine, when it's the exact same government you want to trust to be efficient and effective with our health care.

If you're saying that the government should play a greater role in everyone's health care, you DON'T get to say "except for the Covid vaccine." You're either trusting the government, or you're not.

I vote 'not.'