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    Originally posted by jlw1980 View Post
    More civilians, including children, slaughtered. More war crimes. ​​​​​​More of the world not doing enough to stop this genocide.
    Are you advocating for escalation of the war to where USA and or NATO is involved in a hot war with Russia committing tens or hundreds of thousands of troops to drive out Russia and bring about regime change with the removal of Putin?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

    Comment


      Originally posted by YankeePride1967
      We have to do more. This ranks as one of the worst cases of genocide in history.
      Sadly, in terms of numbers, I don't think that's anywhere near true.
      Polite Red Sox fan

      Comment


        Originally posted by YankeePride1967
        We have to do more. We can’t sit idly by while genocide occurs. You can put Putin amongst the ranks the world’s butchers. At the very least give them the planes they are asking for. Place every sanction. I think NATO and the US joining militarily will put nuclear war at high risk but to sit and watch is not an option
        We do all the time. This only difference is that this time the people being slaughtered are not brown.

        Comment


          Ok deleted posts. Carry on.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post

            Are you advocating for escalation of the war to where USA and or NATO is involved in a hot war with Russia committing tens or hundreds of thousands of troops to drive out Russia and bring about regime change with the removal of Putin?
            Idk. Tell me if you think we're doing enough:

            LATEST: Ukraine’s troops found brutalized bodies with bound hands, gunshot wounds to the head and signs of torture after Russian soldiers withdrew from the outskirts of Kyiv, authorities say, according to the AP.
            Ukrainian troops are finding brutalized bodies and widespread destruction in suburbs of the capital as Russian soldiers withdraw.
            "Our work continues, the fight goes on, and the big dreams never die." -- Elizabeth Warren

            Comment


              Originally posted by jlw1980 View Post

              Idk. Tell me if you think we're doing enough:


              How would you define "doing enough"?

              Would you be willing to send the US military there? Because that's the only way you can be sure of doing enough.
              Polite Red Sox fan

              Comment


                Originally posted by HfxBob View Post

                How would you define "doing enough"?

                Would you be willing to send the US military there? Because that's the only way you can be sure of doing enough.
                Every country on earth needs to stop importing Russian oil. Full embargo on all Russian goods. Send planes and weapons. Do EVERYTHING short of sending troops. There aren't words strong enough for this. Tragedy? Atrocity? They're torturing civilians and leaving them bound and dead in the streets. Raping women (of course).

                Stop asking me questions and tell me if you think we're doing enough. (Even you Canadians.)
                "Our work continues, the fight goes on, and the big dreams never die." -- Elizabeth Warren

                Comment


                  Originally posted by jlw1980 View Post

                  Every country on earth needs to stop importing Russian oil. Full embargo on all Russian goods. Send planes and weapons. Do EVERYTHING short of sending troops. There aren't words strong enough for this. Tragedy? Atrocity? They're torturing civilians and leaving them bound and dead in the streets. Raping women (of course).

                  Stop asking me questions and tell me if you think we're doing enough. (Even you Canadians.)
                  But you know that the actions you're talking about don't necessarily stop a thing.

                  I don't have any answers. I do understand why Biden is reluctant to escalate.

                  I also understand how you feel. This invasion and these atrocities are sickening and enraging.
                  Polite Red Sox fan

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Texsahara View Post
                    We do all the time. This only difference is that this time the people being slaughtered are not brown.
                    Winner, winner, chicken dinner
                    Baseball is life;
                    the rest is just details.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Texsahara View Post
                      We do all the time. This only difference is that this time the people being slaughtered are not brown.
                      That's the only difference? Which genocides are you comparing this event to? Which of them involved a global superpower sending missiles, planes, helicopters, tanks and troops into a country that is the last neighboring ally between NATO and Russia, and one that was being at least considered for inclusion in NATO? Which of those events was a direct threat to the US? And in which of those scenarios could the West have quickly deployed material defensive weaponry that would have protected the victims?

                      What happened in Rwanda for example is a stain on humanity. But that was a civil war in a country that posed no real short-term or long-term threat to others. Tons of arguments can be made that the world should have mobilized quickly to stop a slaughter that went on for several months. But there are in fact many differences between the war in Ukraine and that or any other genocide that comes to mind. Same with what is happening with the Uyghurs. The West can't supply them with weapons nor start a war with China.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by False1 View Post
                        That's the only difference? Which genocides are you comparing this event to? Which of them involved a global superpower sending missiles, planes, helicopters, tanks and troops into a country that is the last neighboring ally between NATO and Russia, and one that was being at least considered for inclusion in NATO? Which of those events was a direct threat to the US? And in which of those scenarios could the West have quickly deployed material defensive weaponry that would have protected the victims?

                        What happened in Rwanda for example is a stain on humanity. But that was a civil war in a country that posed no real short-term or long-term threat to others. Tons of arguments can be made that the world should have mobilized quickly to stop a slaughter that went on for several months. But there are in fact many differences between the war in Ukraine and that or any other genocide that comes to mind. Same with what is happening with the Uyghurs. The West can't supply them with weapons nor start a war with China.
                        "We can’t sit idly by while genocide occurs."

                        ​​​​​​I stand by my response to that comment. Responding to genocide should not be dependent on whether or not there is a direct threat. It's is a moral obligation. Yet somehow we manage to spin our way out of that obligation when the bodies are brown. You just demonstrated that.
                        Last edited by Texsahara; 04-04-22, 04:11 AM.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Texsahara View Post

                          "We can’t sit idly by while genocide occurs."

                          ​​​​​​I stand by my response to that comment. Responding to genocide should not be dependent on whether or not there is a direct threat. It's is a moral obligation. Yet somehow we manage to spin our way out of that obligation when the bodies are brown. You just demonstrated that.
                          For the record I do agree with you. We can’t however sit idly by whole ANY genocide occurs, including this one. I think two things (we need to do more here AND for genocide involving non-whites) can be true at the same time. We are selective in our response and I as not suggesting we interfere here and not others

                          Comment


                            Sully on Stewart appearance:

                            It’s also worth noting that in a country that Stewart calls “white supremacy,” legal immigrants are overwhelmingly of color. By 2065, Pew estimates, nonwhites will account for 80 percent of all immigrants. Among federal employees, about 20 percent are black. If this is evidence of a country defined by “systemic racism,” then I’m a heterosexual.

                            I raise these points not to argue against the reality of racism today; it’s still among us, of course. It’s just far, far less common than in the past. In 1958, for example, four percent of Americans approved of marriage between blacks and whites; today, it’s 94 percent. If you think that’s evidence of the permanence of “white supremacy,” I don’t know what to tell you. I’m also not denying persistent wealth and educational gaps. But let’s not go overboard in our gloom. In 2019, the black unemployment rate and black poverty rate reached all-time lows. (For more optimism, read these comprehensive pieces by Coleman Hughes and Wilfred Reilly.)

                            Nor do I want to ignore the historical legacy of public and private discrimination. I’m just saying any explanation for racial disparities today is much more complex than simply intoning “white supremacy,” and implicitly dismissing any notion of other factors, or any black agency at all.

                            And if we want to actually tackle tangible disparities, we need to get concrete and pragmatic. How do we reduce crime in poor black neighborhoods? How do we help foster black fatherhood? How do we better support black single moms financially? How important is childcare? How much more should we invest in schooling, and what new creative solutions should we try? For me, the most compelling moment on Stewart’s show was when he asked his guests for solutions. They had nothing, except blandishments, or more “conversations” with white people. One even said we need a new Marshall Plan, forgetting we have already had the equivalent of 140 of them!
                            So what exactly is driving the popular attachment to these ahistorical racial phantasms, especially among wealthy white lefties like Jon Stewart? Again, I think one guest on the show was instructive. Stewart invited on, and fawned over, a woman named Lisa Bond, who runs an organization called Race2Dinner. She charges white women $2,500 per dinner to be harangued for their racism. And if you believe, as I and the vast majority of Americans do, that racism is a pejorative generalization about a whole group of people solely because of their skin color, Lisa Bond is unequivocably a racist — and a sexist. She said the following on the air in front of Stewart:
                            "I did not come on this show to argue with another white man. That’s one of the reasons we don’t even engage with white men at Race2Dinner, because quite honestly if white men were going to do something about racism, you had 400 years. You could have done it."

                            When I tried to explain that I immigrated in 1984, and that a white man in 2022 cannot possibly be held responsible for something that happened four centuries ago, she replied: “I’m going to shut you down.” Stewart was enthralled. Then she spelled out exactly what she meant:
                            "All white people do this. I don’t care if we say we’re Abolitionists, I don’t care if we say we’re Progressive, I don’t care if we are literally members of the KKK. Every single white person upholds these systems and structures of white supremacy, and we have got to talk about it."

                            This is the poisonous heart of CRT: that white people, by virtue of merely existing, are all morally problematic and always will be. Even if all the systems have been repealed. Even if you’d never racially discriminate yourself. Even if you spent your life fighting racism. That is why Bond called the Abolitionist movement indistinguishable in terms of its racism from the KKK! Why? Because whites are only ever whites.

                            Absorb that for a moment. This foul race essentialism, this view of white Americans as a single, undifferentiated blob of hate existing through the centuries as a force for the oppression of non-whites is simply the inverse of the old racism. It’s replacing hatred of blacks with hatred of whites; it’s replacing discrimination against blacks with discrimination against whites and Asians and others. It’s being used to make even more money for rich white people, to provide some elite whites with a weapon to destroy their career rivals, and to help build a new racial spoils system that leaves any notion of colorblindness or individual rights behind. (And the bigotry is palpable. When I spoke of the need to help a generation hobbled by absent fathers, high crime, and deep poverty, Lisa Bond responded: “Like you care about black kids.” There is no ad hominem these fanatics won’t stoop to.)

                            Is that a way out of where we are? Or is it, in fact, a fast way back to where we started?

                            One more thing: the trope of a malign racial force existing through history across time and space is one Jon Stewart might have once recognized before he joined the woke cult. I wonder what he would have said if someone had come on his old show and said, “I did not come on this show to argue with a Jew,” or “every single Jew upholds these systems,” or it doesn’t matter what a Jew’s politics are, he’s still a Jew, and therefore a racist. What if she had bragged that her organization wouldn’t even engage with Jews because they were so toxic. And what if that person had looked straight at a Jewish guest of Stewart’s when she said it? What would he have said?

                            Somehow I don’t think it would be: “If I could finger snap, I would finger snap right now.”
                            https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/...on-stewart?s=r
                            Calmer than you are

                            7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Texsahara View Post

                              "We can’t sit idly by while genocide occurs."

                              ​​​​​​I stand by my response to that comment. Responding to genocide should not be dependent on whether or not there is a direct threat. It's is a moral obligation. Yet somehow we manage to spin our way out of that obligation when the bodies are brown. You just demonstrated that.
                              Word.

                              (I don't believe in helping only if they're white. I hope everyone here knows me better than that.)
                              "Our work continues, the fight goes on, and the big dreams never die." -- Elizabeth Warren

                              Comment


                                I'm terrified. I'm anxious and depressed. I'm angry, both at those taking us back to the dark ages and those who seem completely unconcerned.

                                It's past time to be angry. It's past time to plan, like these people are. It's past time to get ready to put it all on the line, unless female bodies don't matter to you.

                                My ire is not directed at those already actively preparing and participating, whether quietly or loudly, but at those who are nonchalant about what is coming. The silence is deafening, because I fear most of it isn't from those quietly working behind the scenes, but from those full of apathy. And to paraphrase MLK, I think the apathy of the male moderate is just as harmful as the direct and deadly action of the religious right.

                                I don't want arguments. I want to know what people are doing to help, even if it's writing letters and making phone calls. All of it matters. All of it.

                                We matter.
                                "Our work continues, the fight goes on, and the big dreams never die." -- Elizabeth Warren

                                Comment

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