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    Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    FWIW, I'm fine with requiring IDs to vote, but then they also need to be free and easily obtainable. But I also understand the arguments against mandating IDs to vote as it disproportiantly restricts poor voters.

    Your arguments about people wearing masks wrong is simply another red herring. Yes there will be people who wear them wrong, they will be a small percentage.
    There is no reason to require IDs. Voter fraud is effectively nonexistent. Since voting is a fundamental right, the state needs a compelling reason to place restrictions on it. There is none.
    History is our lessons to learn good things to do and bad things to not do.
    - MTG

    Comment


      Originally posted by JL25and3 View Post
      There is no reason to require IDs. Voter fraud is effectively nonexistent. Since voting is a fundamental right, the state needs a compelling reason to place restrictions on it. There is none.
      Sooo....I can’t believe I’m going to take this approach...


      ....do the states then have the right to require permits for firearms?

      Comment


        Re: Covid-19

        Originally posted by JL25and3 View Post
        There is no reason to require IDs. Voter fraud is effectively nonexistent. Since voting is a fundamental right, the state needs a compelling reason to place restrictions on it. There is none.
        Well there was that republican dude in North Carolina that cause a a whole redo of a Congressional district election. But yeah the only wide spread voter fraud exists in Donald Judas Trump's mind.
        Baseball is life;
        the rest is just details.

        Comment


          Re: Covid-19

          Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
          FWIW, I'm fine with requiring IDs to vote, but then they also need to be free and easily obtainable.
          Hey. We fully and completely agree.
          Originally posted by Yankee Tripper
          Yes there will be people who wear them wrong, they will be a small percentage.
          Nope. I think it will be a significant percentage. Go to a grocery store and watch the number of times people touch the fabric with their bare hands. Sit in the parking lot and watch how they put them on and take them off. They only use the strings of course. Right? Not so much. How confident are you that everyone is laundering those things on a daily basis?

          I would contend that fully half the population wearing masks is doing so in violation of the CDC guidelines for those masks.
          • The mouth and nose are fully covered
          • The covering fits snugly against the sides of the face so there are no gaps
          • You do not have any difficulty breathing while wearing the cloth face covering
          • The cloth face covering can be tied or otherwise secured to prevent slipping
          - Avoid touching your face as much as possible.
          - Keep the covering clean.
          - Clean hands with soap and water or alcohol-based hand sanitizer immediately, before putting on, after touching or adjusting, and after removing the cloth face covering.
          - In general, cloth face coverings should be washed regularly (e.g., daily and whenever soiled) using water and a mild detergent, dried completely in a hot dryer, and stored in a clean container or bag.

          That's not happening.

          "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
          - President Barack Obama

          Comment


            Originally posted by philleotardo View Post
            Sooo....I can’t believe I’m going to take this approach...


            ....do the states then have the right to require permits for firearms?
            That was only defined as a fundamental right for individuals a dozen years ago. Scalia seemed to indicate that that was OK, but there’s a lot of case law yet to come on that question.
            History is our lessons to learn good things to do and bad things to not do.
            - MTG

            Comment


              Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
              Well there was that republican dude in North Carolina that cause a a whole redo of a Congressional district election. But yeah the only wide spread voter fraud exists in Donald Judas Trump's mind.
              That was electoral fraud, but not voter fraud.
              History is our lessons to learn good things to do and bad things to not do.
              - MTG

              Comment


                Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                Hey. We fully and completely agree.Nope. I think it will be a significant percentage. Go to a grocery store and watch the number of times people touch the fabric with their bare hands. Sit in the parking lot and watch how they put them on and take them off. They only use the strings of course. Right? Not so much. How confident are you that everyone is laundering those things on a daily basis?

                I would contend that fully half the population wearing masks is doing so in violation of the CDC guidelines for those masks.
                • The mouth and nose are fully covered
                • The covering fits snugly against the sides of the face so there are no gaps
                • You do not have any difficulty breathing while wearing the cloth face covering
                • The cloth face covering can be tied or otherwise secured to prevent slipping
                - Avoid touching your face as much as possible.
                - Keep the covering clean.
                - Clean hands with soap and water or alcohol-based hand sanitizer immediately, before putting on, after touching or adjusting, and after removing the cloth face covering.
                - In general, cloth face coverings should be washed regularly (e.g., daily and whenever soiled) using water and a mild detergent, dried completely in a hot dryer, and stored in a clean container or bag.

                That's not happening.
                Which renders them less than optimally effective, but still doesn’t make them irrelevant.
                History is our lessons to learn good things to do and bad things to not do.
                - MTG

                Comment


                  Re: Covid-19

                  Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                  Hey. We fully and completely agree.Nope. I think it will be a significant percentage. Go to a grocery store and watch the number of times people touch the fabric with their bare hands. Sit in the parking lot and watch how they put them on and take them off. They only use the strings of course. Right? Not so much. How confident are you that everyone is laundering those things on a daily basis?

                  I would contend that fully half the population wearing masks is doing so in violation of the CDC guidelines for those masks.
                  • The mouth and nose are fully covered
                  • The covering fits snugly against the sides of the face so there are no gaps
                  • You do not have any difficulty breathing while wearing the cloth face covering
                  • The cloth face covering can be tied or otherwise secured to prevent slipping
                  - Avoid touching your face as much as possible.
                  - Keep the covering clean.
                  - Clean hands with soap and water or alcohol-based hand sanitizer immediately, before putting on, after touching or adjusting, and after removing the cloth face covering.
                  - In general, cloth face coverings should be washed regularly (e.g., daily and whenever soiled) using water and a mild detergent, dried completely in a hot dryer, and stored in a clean container or bag.

                  That's not happening.
                  I guess you just live around a lot of stupid people.


                  Look masks work. They are are extremely effective at slowing the spread of the disease as show by a study of countries like SK, Japan and Hong Kong that have very high usage of masks in public with much lower transmission and fatality rates despite having some of the highest population density and public transportation usage pretty much anywhere.


                  So once again I'll go with science over folksy Maynerd anecdotes.
                  Baseball is life;
                  the rest is just details.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by JL25and3 View Post
                    That was only defined as a fundamental right for individuals a dozen years ago. Scalia seemed to indicate that that was OK, but there’s a lot of case law yet to come on that question.
                    A dozen years ago, yesterday, 1780....doesn’t really change it, whether I agree with it or not.

                    And, frankly, I can’t imagine pending case law is going to swing the pendulum the way I’d want it.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by philleotardo View Post
                      A dozen years ago, yesterday, 1780....doesn’t really change it, whether I agree with it or not.

                      And, frankly, I can’t imagine pending case law is going to swing the pendulum the way I’d want it.
                      It may well not. Do I think the state has a compelling interest in requiring a license? Sure, because people with guns kill people. Votes are not as immediately lethal.
                      History is our lessons to learn good things to do and bad things to not do.
                      - MTG

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by JL25and3 View Post
                        It may well not. Do I think the state has a compelling interest in requiring a license? Sure, because people with guns kill people. Votes are not as immediately lethal.
                        But each is currently defined as a fundamental right, even if it’s completely absurd.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by philleotardo View Post
                          But each is currently defined as a fundamental right, even if it’s completely absurd.
                          As I said, I think the state has a compelling interest in gun licensing. There is a problem that needs to be addressed. Not so with voter ID. But voters do have to register.
                          History is our lessons to learn good things to do and bad things to not do.
                          - MTG

                          Comment


                            Re: Covid-19

                            Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                            If the expectation for a voter to have an ID card is decried as racist, how can the expectation for someone to wear a mask be acceptable?

                            Now......I wear a mask at work, and when I pick up food, or go to the grocery store, and I greatly appreciate other people who do likewise. [That mask does far more to protect other people than it does to protect you.] But "mandatory" has been linked to "racist," with regard to voter ID. How is this expectation different?
                            Good evening, Maynerd.

                            I haven't followed the whole voter ID card thing in about 7 years. I think it was being done in South Carolina at the time, and that was a hot topic. I can't honestly comment on the racial implications of this.

                            As far as wearing personal protective equipment ("PPEs"), be they a face mask, handkerchief, face shield, gloves, etc, I only know that this was called a racial situation when several members of the NYPD (NYC cops) were arresting many racial minorities for not wearing the PPEs, which are required to enter stores, restaurants, etc.

                            Upon hearing of this, NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio decided to let the community activists, elected officials and houses of worship be put as responsible for distributing these.

                            Since Covid-19 has hit the black and Hispanic population more harshly than others in the NYC metro area, I think it's quite likely due to the lack of wearing of these. This in addition to the fact that many trucks with massive exhaust fumes already are diverted to pass through the residences of blacks and Hispanics, those individuals may already have weak immune systems.

                            Since Covid-19, unlike a bullet or an animal, doesn't have eyes, it will naturally force those who are more physically vulnerable, to its mercy. To me, that's not racism, but that's just the facts, as far as I'm concerned. Everyone's opinion will be their own.
                            Dr King (1929-68): Make the Dream a Reality.
                            RIP, Nelson Mandela, Jackie #42 & Rosa Parks; Ali: Get up…get up; Aretha Franklin; Isaac Hayes; Stevie Wonder: Isn't She Lovely?; Dr J; Smokin' Joe

                            Comment


                              Re: Covid-19

                              Originally posted by theDurk View Post
                              Now, in Brazil, both a national ID card and a Voter ID card are mandatory, as is voting in every election. While the left would howl at the mandatory national and voter ID, the right would scream at universal mandatory voting. It would end them forever, absent bizarre accidents of history.

                              Some Brazilians are forced to travel hours down jungle rivers in man-powered boats to reach a voting post. But the left wants those votes.

                              The US is one of the few countries that has no required national ID card.

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...identity_cards
                              Do those things have a photo on them?

                              My last voting card was some flimsy piece of paper that looked like it came with a box of Cracker Jacks.

                              For awhile, I was denied a voter card, since my primary address was a mailing address, not a residential.

                              If someone wants a solution to that, make people who proper ID. All I was ever asked to do in the past was to visit my local polling place, sign my name, and if it matched what was on file, I'd cast my ballot.
                              Dr King (1929-68): Make the Dream a Reality.
                              RIP, Nelson Mandela, Jackie #42 & Rosa Parks; Ali: Get up…get up; Aretha Franklin; Isaac Hayes; Stevie Wonder: Isn't She Lovely?; Dr J; Smokin' Joe

                              Comment


                                Re: Covid-19

                                It's ironic how generally the people in favor of requiring ID's for voting would skew against mandatory wearing of masks. And vice versa.

                                I'm slightly left of center on most issues. But I've never understood how people could argue against presenting an ID before voting. Political agendas aside, it seems to me to be a common sense step in the process.

                                Now, do I believe the President when he says there is vast voter fraud that caused him the popular vote and that's why ID is needed? or that that's why mail in ballots are a bad idea? No. I'm not an idiot.

                                If any fraud exists, it's around the margins and surely pales in comparison to things like foreign interference.

                                Still, though, presenting a valid ID, much the way I need to to drive a car or buy alcohol (or at least as I USED to be asked to do, and hopefully some day will be asked to again when purchasing a mediocre bottle of Merlot), seems like a reasonable best practice. It's not racist nor oppressive, imo. It's a reasonable best practice. Agreed, we should always strive to make sure having an ID is as inexpensive and painless as absolutely possible. But it's not an unreasonable requirement at all. As George Constanza pointed out, "we live in a SOCIETY here!"

                                Similarly, I don't see how being required to wear a mask during a pandemic currently trending towards 400,000 annual deaths in our country, even with social distancing, is somehow an overreaction. We have kept grocery stores, drug stores, gas stations, airports, hotels, golf courses, highways, take out restaurants, liquor stores, hardware stores, and garden stores open. As wonderful and inspiring as the Constitution is, does anybody REALLY think the framers wouldn't agree that requiring a mask to prevent the spread of a very contagious and lethal virus is a good idea?

                                Is it my right to walk around without, say, pants? Is it a constitutional right to expose my junk downtown? Yes, I realize we haven't had time to ratify the wearing of masks the way we have clothes. But come on.

                                Comment

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