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    Re: Covid-19

    What if the nearest DMV is over an hour away, and you are poor and don’t have a car? That is the case for many people where I live. Their reality is that they can spend $35 to get an ID, or they can spend that money to eat for a week. What do you think they choose?

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      Re: Covid-19

      Originally posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
      What if the nearest DMV is over an hour away, and you are poor and don’t have a car? That is the case for many people where I live. Their reality is that they can spend $35 to get an ID, or they can spend that money to eat for a week. What do you think they choose?
      This!
      NYYFANS: See you on the other side!

      Comment


        Originally posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
        It's ironic how generally the people in favor of requiring ID's for voting would skew against mandatory wearing of masks. And vice versa.

        I'm slightly left of center on most issues. But I've never understood how people could argue against presenting an ID before voting. Political agendas aside, it seems to me to be a common sense step in the process.

        Now, do I believe the President when he says there is vast voter fraud that caused him the popular vote and that's why ID is needed? or that that's why mail in ballots are a bad idea? No. I'm not an idiot.

        If any fraud exists, it's around the margins and surely pales in comparison to things like foreign interference.

        Still, though, presenting a valid ID, much the way I need to to drive a car or buy alcohol (or at least as I USED to be asked to do, and hopefully some day will be asked to again when purchasing a mediocre bottle of Merlot), seems like a reasonable best practice. It's not racist nor oppressive, imo. It's a reasonable best practice. Agreed, we should always strive to make sure having an ID is as inexpensive and painless as absolutely possible. But it's not an unreasonable requirement at all. As George Constanza pointed out, "we live in a SOCIETY here!"

        Similarly, I don't see how being required to wear a mask during a pandemic currently trending towards 400,000 annual deaths in our country, even with social distancing, is somehow an overreaction. We have kept grocery stores, drug stores, gas stations, airports, hotels, golf courses, highways, take out restaurants, liquor stores, hardware stores, and garden stores open. As wonderful and inspiring as the Constitution is, does anybody REALLY think the framers wouldn't agree that requiring a mask to prevent the spread of a very contagious and lethal virus is a good idea?

        Is it my right to walk around without, say, pants? Is it a constitutional right to expose my junk downtown? Yes, I realize we haven't had time to ratify the wearing of masks the way we have clothes. But come on.
        Driving a car and buying booze are privileges. Voting is a right.

        Voter ID isn’t any more or less racist than literacy tests or poll taxes. They were supposed to be for everyone. Except, of course, they were racist. Whose voter ID do you think gets checked, double-checked, and triple-checked before they vote? This ID doesn’t include the middle initial. This picture doesn’t look like you. This expired yesterday. And so on. You think that they’re even going to look twice if it’s a white person?

        The whole idea of "best practices" is that they’re empirically based. "If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it" is best practice if it ain’t broke.
        History is our lessons to learn good things to do and bad things to not do.
        - MTG

        Comment


          Re: Covid-19

          It seems that Covid-19 has or is about to claim the lives of 100,000 Americans in the last few months (many more in other countries, too, of course). Masks are a part but not the whole of the solution to that problem in the short-term. Hopefully we can all agree that 100,000 deaths, with more to come, qualifies as a "problem".

          What problem, demonstrated through recent events, is solved by mandatory voting IDs?

          Be seeing you,

          Saxmania
          Last edited by Saxmania; 05-22-20, 08:54 AM.
          Mayonnaise is a demanding master.

          Comment


            Re: Covid-19

            If you want to require an ID to vote, then it needs to be free of charge, and readily available. People should be able to get the ID at the local elementary school, library, or post office, and for people who cannot get to one of those places due to cost or mobility issues, the government should come to them to get them the ID.
            Fantasy Baseball: Larrupin' Lou's
            2016 NYYFans.com Fantasy Baseball League Champjons

            Comment


              Originally posted by Big_E View Post
              If you want to require an ID to vote, then it needs to be free of charge, and readily available. People should be able to get the ID at the local elementary school, library, or post office, and for people who cannot get to one of those places due to cost or mobility issues, the government should come to them to get them the ID.
              For reasons I stated above, it will still be used as a tool of racism. I say if you want to require an ID to vote, change your mind.
              History is our lessons to learn good things to do and bad things to not do.
              - MTG

              Comment


                Re: Covid-19

                I've derailed the conversation a bit, and for that I apologize.

                My point was intended to be a simple question that if it's unreasonable to expect the population to acquire something as easy to get as a government ID card, how is it reasonable to expect the population to acquire a face mask? As to voting, I'm strongly in favor of voting by mail (as we have done in Colorado for 7 years now), which pretty obviously doesn't require an ID card. I just used the ID as a point of comparison because of the claims the practice is racist.

                A secondary question is if we make the wear of face masks mandatory by law, how do we handle the myriad of people who are doing it wrong? Are they all subject to fines? If we allow a poor fitting mask, or allow someone to pull the mask aside to sneeze, what have we achieved, other than a false sense of security?

                I wear a mask at work, when I'm out of my office. I wear a mask when I'm picking up food or stopping at the grocery store, or doing pretty much anything out in public. I'm not one of those people who somehow conflates wearing masks to stripping me of some sort of Constitutional Right. I just question the premise that it should be required by law.

                "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                - President Barack Obama

                Comment


                  Re: Covid-19

                  The people wearing it wrong you ask them to correct it, you don’t fine them. It’s called education.
                  It’s the people not wearing them you fine.
                  And yes there will be a percentage that don’t do it right.
                  Make it a law most folks will comply with it.
                  They may not like the law and they may break the law, but a pretty large percentage will comply drastically reducing the number of vectors.
                  Baseball is life;
                  the rest is just details.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                    I've derailed the conversation a bit, and for that I apologize.

                    My point was intended to be a simple question that if it's unreasonable to expect the population to acquire something as easy to get as a government ID card, how is it reasonable to expect the population to acquire a face mask? As to voting, I'm strongly in favor of voting by mail (as we have done in Colorado for 7 years now), which pretty obviously doesn't require an ID card. I just used the ID as a point of comparison because of the claims the practice is racist.

                    A secondary question is if we make the wear of face masks mandatory by law, how do we handle the myriad of people who are doing it wrong? Are they all subject to fines? If we allow a poor fitting mask, or allow someone to pull the mask aside to sneeze, what have we achieved, other than a false sense of security?

                    I wear a mask at work, when I'm out of my office. I wear a mask when I'm picking up food or stopping at the grocery store, or doing pretty much anything out in public. I'm not one of those people who somehow conflates wearing masks to stripping me of some sort of Constitutional Right. I just question the premise that it should be required by law.
                    It can be required by law, but - as with any other law - enforcement priorities may vary. Jaywalking is illegal in NYC, but it doesn’t mean that anyone who crosses in the middle of the block gets a ticket. You do what you can.
                    History is our lessons to learn good things to do and bad things to not do.
                    - MTG

                    Comment


                      Re: Covid-19

                      Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
                      The people wearing it wrong you ask them to correct it, you don’t fine them. It’s called education.
                      It’s the people not wearing them you fine.
                      And yes there will be a percentage that don’t do it right.
                      Make it a law most folks will comply with it.
                      They may not like the law and they may break the law, but a pretty large percentage will comply drastically reducing the number of vectors.
                      Making it mandatory is enough. Warnings if you don't wear one. That makes it easier for businesses to require compliance. That's it. If someone gets a hundred warnings and still refuses, so be it. No fines. If it is mandatory most people will comply. The last thing we need are more fines that will just end up being a regressive tax on the poor who, of course, are predominantly people of color. We have to stop criminalizing poverty.

                      Comment


                        Re: Covid-19

                        Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
                        The people wearing it wrong you ask them to correct it, you don’t fine them. It’s called education.
                        It’s the people not wearing them you fine.
                        And yes there will be a percentage that don’t do it right.
                        Make it a law most folks will comply with it.
                        They may not like the law and they may break the law, but a pretty large percentage will comply drastically reducing the number of vectors.


                        All of this.
                        “Nobody teaches life anything.” - Gabriel García Márquez

                        Comment


                          Re: Covid-19

                          Originally posted by Texsahara View Post
                          Making it mandatory is enough. Warnings if you don't wear one. That makes it easier for businesses to require compliance. That's it. If someone gets a hundred warnings and still refuses, so be it. No fines. If it is mandatory most people will comply. The last thing we need are more fines that will just end up being a regressive tax on the poor who, of course, are predominantly people of color. We have to stop criminalizing poverty.
                          It’s not criminalizing poverty. Poor people want to live, too. As YT alluded, educate the public on the wear and care for your masks, and where you must wear them. You absolutely have to impose a fine if you skirt the law on this. Especially when we have a President who has turned masks into a [BLEEPING] wedge issue on manhood.
                          “Nobody teaches life anything.” - Gabriel García Márquez

                          Comment


                            Re: Covid-19

                            Originally posted by ojo View Post
                            It’s not criminalizing poverty. Poor people want to live, too. As YT alluded, educate the public on the wear and care for your masks, and where you must wear them. You absolutely have to impose a fine if you skirt the law on this. Especially when we have a President who has turned masks into a [BLEEPING] wedge issue on manhood.
                            Okay. So what do you propose doing when they can't pay the fine?

                            Comment


                              Re: Covid-19

                              Originally posted by Texsahara View Post
                              If someone gets a hundred warnings and still refuses, so be it. No fines.
                              If there's absolutely no penalty for non-compliance, why bother? That's no longer a law; it's a recommendation.

                              "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                              - President Barack Obama

                              Comment


                                Re: Covid-19

                                Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                                If there's absolutely no penalty for non-compliance, why bother? That's no longer a law; it's a recommendation.
                                Same question. What do you propose doing when they can't pay the fine?

                                Comment

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