Covid-19

[ojo]

Re: Covid-19

Okay. So what do you propose doing when they can't pay the fine?

Traffic tickets, and the fines that are assigned with them are handed out regardless of one’s ability to pay them.

I get it. Fines disproportionately affect the impoverished.

WEAR YOUR FREAKIN MASK.

[Maynerd]

Re: Covid-19

Same question. What do you propose doing when they can't pay the fine?

Are poor people allowed to speed? Are they allowed to drive while impaired? What if they can't pay THOSE fines?

If they can't pay the fine for not wearing a mask (if the law so requires), then they can put on a mask, and there ARE no fines.

[Texsahara]

Re: Covid-19

Are poor people allowed to speed? Are they allowed to drive while impaired? What if they can't pay THOSE fines?

If they can't pay the fine for not wearing a mask (if the law so requires), then they can put on a mask, and there ARE no fines.

So double the fine? Triple it? Throw them in jail?

[ojo]

Re: Covid-19

So double the fine? Triple it? Throw them in jail?

Why do you insist on this track? The answer is simple. Wear your mask. Some folks cannot afford to make the anti-social statement that confuses the differences between the minor, temporary inconvenience of wearing a mask versus oppression.

[Yankee Tripper]

Re: Covid-19

Same question. What do you propose doing when they can't pay the fine?

You give the authority to waive them.

[Maynerd]

Re: Covid-19

So double the fine? Triple it? Throw them in jail?

If it's important enough that we need to pass a law to codify a societal expectation, sure. Or at least, some sort of mandated Community Service.

Won't wear a mask? Can't afford the fine? Here are a handful of trash bags. There's a City Park. Meet us back here when you've got those bags filled with garbage.

Sorry. I cannot accept a law where we allow poor people to violate it. We mandate equal PROTECTION under the law. We should expect equal APPLICATION of the law.

[Yankee Tripper]

Re: Covid-19

If it's important enough that we need to pass a law to codify a societal expectation, sure. Or at least, some sort of mandated Community Service.

Won't wear a mask? Can't afford the fine? Here are a handful of trash bags. There's a City Park. Meet us back here when you've got those bags filled with garbage.

Sorry. I cannot accept a law where we allow poor people to violate it. We mandate equal PROTECTION under the law. We should expect equal APPLICATION of the law.

This has rarely if ever been the case in actual practice, why should now be different?

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

Re: Covid-19

Not the point of this thread but I've always thought that fines should be based on income. A $50 fine won't crush someone making $20k a year, but it'll hurt and make them think twice. A $5000 fine for the same crime for someone who makes $500k a year won't crush them either, but it'll hurt enough to make them think twice. A $50 fine would basically be legalizing that crime for the rich.

[JL25and3]

If it's important enough that we need to pass a law to codify a societal expectation, sure. Or at least, some sort of mandated Community Service.

Won't wear a mask? Can't afford the fine? Here are a handful of trash bags. There's a City Park. Meet us back here when you've got those bags filled with garbage.

Sorry. I cannot accept a law where we allow poor people to violate it. We mandate equal PROTECTION under the law. We should expect equal APPLICATION of the law.

Selective enforcement is a simple fact of everyday life. If this turned out to be enforced in a way that favored poor people, it would probably be the first time. It wouldn’t bother me.

[Texsahara]

Re: Covid-19

Why do you insist on this track? The answer is simple. Wear your mask. Some folks cannot afford to make the anti-social statement that confuses the differences between the minor, temporary inconvenience of wearing a mask versus oppression.

What track? The one where you don't answer the question or the one where people who are unable to pay fines for minor infractions are often hit with devastating consequences that can include jail time? If you want to make a law and that law requires that you fine people for violating it, I think you should be prepared to address the possible outcomes of that decision.

[Maynerd]

Re: Covid-19

If you want to make a law and that law requires that you fine people for violating it, I think you should be prepared to address the possible outcomes of that decision.

If you want to make a law and that law has no repercussions for violating it, why did you even bother making the law?

[Texsahara]

Re: Covid-19

If it's important enough that we need to pass a law to codify a societal expectation, sure. Or at least, some sort of mandated Community Service.

Won't wear a mask? Can't afford the fine? Here are a handful of trash bags. There's a City Park. Meet us back here when you've got those bags filled with garbage.

Sorry. I cannot accept a law where we allow poor people to violate it. We mandate equal PROTECTION under the law. We should expect equal APPLICATION of the law.

EQUAL application of the law. So make community service the "fine" for not wearing a mask. The guy that makes $ gets to pick up trash with the less privileged instead of just writing a check for money he won't miss. The jobs are all the same - the guy with money doesn't get to work at the rec center basketball program while others pick up trash in the park. And no one has to risk losing their job or be put under circumstances where it would cost them extra to do so. We would never give the banker community service on Monday during working hours so let's not force the dishwasher to miss work to do his community service on a saturday. And everyone has to go to the site in the community service van, not meet at there in his own car. Equal.

[Texsahara]

Re: Covid-19

If you want to make a law and that law has no repercussions for violating it, why did you even bother making the law?

Because the vast majority of people are law abiding citizens that will follow it if it is the law vs consider ignoring it if it is not. By making it mandatory you also give law enforcement the authority to tell someone to put on a mask and in a just world, hand them one. You also give businesses more authority to say masks are required. Do you only follow the law because you are afraid of the punishment? Most people are no different than you.

[Maynerd]

Re: Covid-19

Because the vast majority of people are law abiding citizens that will follow it if it is the law vs consider ignoring it if it is not.

Have you driven on a freeway lately?

By making it mandatory you also give law enforcement the authority to tell someone to put on a mask and in a just world, hand them one.

You can make it a community health recommendation, and law enforcement has the same authority.

You also give businesses more authority to say masks are required.

Completely unnecessary. If you're the business OWNER, you already have that authority.

Do you only follow the law because you are afraid of the punishment? Most people are no different than you.

Depends on the law. See speeding, above. I would certainly drive a lot faster if there was no punishment for doing so.

[ojo]

Re: Covid-19

What track? The one where you don't answer the question or the one where people who are unable to pay fines for minor infractions are often hit with devastating consequences that can include jail time? If you want to make a law and that law requires that you fine people for violating it, I think you should be prepared to address the possible outcomes of that decision.

So, because of all the injustice baked-into American jurisprudence, it would be wrong to levy fines against those unwilling to wear masks?

That’s bonkers.