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    Originally posted by jlw1980 View Post
    I bought a pulse oximeter. It's awesome. Now I can make sure I'm not dying. :lol:
    Honest question: why?
    Russian warship, go **** yourself

    Comment


      Re: Covid-19

      Originally posted by Texsahara View Post
      They are not making law. Both state and local governments have very broad authority to issue orders during a public health emergency. Legal issues generally arise when they don't follow the proper process for the mandate but the authority is there. It's more than just a recommendation. How they go about enforcing it is a different problem and varies from state to state.
      So, what's the benefit? If it's not a law, and there's no strict enforceability, the people who are refusing to wear masks are still going to refuse. The people the directive would be effective on are already wearing them.

      The same holds true for Wal-Mart and Kroger and such. If the store says 'masks are mandatory' in an location where there is no such law, there's nothing they can do if someone removes their mask after entering the store.

      I applaud efforts by businesspeople and local governments to promote the wear of masks. I'm just saying it's not appropriate to lambast a governor who has not issued a toothless state-wide order. If the order is nothing more than eye-wash, what does it achieve? That's why I used Polis as an example. He's leading. He's setting an example. He's encouraging localities to issue mask orders, but hasn't done so for all of Colorado, as he knows it would be unenforceable.

      And I still don't understand how the wear of masks became a political issue rather than a matter of public health.

      "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
      - President Barack Obama

      Comment


        Re: Covid-19

        Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
        So, what's the benefit? If it's not a law, and there's no strict enforceability, the people who are refusing to wear masks are still going to refuse. The people the directive would be effective on are already wearing them.

        The same holds true for Wal-Mart and Kroger and such. If the store says 'masks are mandatory' in an location where there is no such law, there's nothing they can do if someone removes their mask after entering the store.

        I applaud efforts by businesspeople and local governments to promote the wear of masks. I'm just saying it's not appropriate to lambast a governor who has not issued a toothless state-wide order. If the order is nothing more than eye-wash, what does it achieve? That's why I used Polis as an example. He's leading. He's setting an example. He's encouraging localities to issue mask orders, but hasn't done so for all of Colorado, as he knows it would be unenforceable.

        And I still don't understand how the wear of masks became a political issue rather than a matter of public health.
        If Trump was supportive and regularly wore a mask, this wouldn't be a political issue. We have a president whose re-election strategy revolves around pretending we are past the virus, and wants to remove any reminders that the virus is still with us. I'm living in France at the moment, and while I won't pretend there is 100% compliance with mask-wearing, the politics around it don't exist.

        Comment


          Re: Covid-19

          Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
          So, what's the benefit? If it's not a law, and there's no strict enforceability, the people who are refusing to wear masks are still going to refuse. The people the directive would be effective on are already wearing them.

          The same holds true for Wal-Mart and Kroger and such. If the store says 'masks are mandatory' in an location where there is no such law, there's nothing they can do if someone removes their mask after entering the store.

          I applaud efforts by businesspeople and local governments to promote the wear of masks. I'm just saying it's not appropriate to lambast a governor who has not issued a toothless state-wide order. If the order is nothing more than eye-wash, what does it achieve? That's why I used Polis as an example. He's leading. He's setting an example. He's encouraging localities to issue mask orders, but hasn't done so for all of Colorado, as he knows it would be unenforceable.

          And I still don't understand how the wear of masks became a political issue rather than a matter of public health.
          Can they refuse to serve a customer? Not check them out?
          Let the kids play.

          Comment


            Re: Covid-19

            Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
            So, what's the benefit? If it's not a law, and there's no strict enforceability, the people who are refusing to wear masks are still going to refuse. The people the directive would be effective on are already wearing them.

            The same holds true for Wal-Mart and Kroger and such. If the store says 'masks are mandatory' in an location where there is no such law, there's nothing they can do if someone removes their mask after entering the store.

            I applaud efforts by businesspeople and local governments to promote the wear of masks. I'm just saying it's not appropriate to lambast a governor who has not issued a toothless state-wide order. If the order is nothing more than eye-wash, what does it achieve? That's why I used Polis as an example. He's leading. He's setting an example. He's encouraging localities to issue mask orders, but hasn't done so for all of Colorado, as he knows it would be unenforceable.

            And I still don't understand how the wear of masks became a political issue rather than a matter of public health.
            Who said it could not be enforced? Of course it can. I said how it is enforced changes from state to state. Maybe you fine the individuals or, better, maybe you fine the business. Maybe if the business still does not enforce the order, the health department shuts them down. It's only toothless if the state allows it to be.

            Comment


              Re: Covid-19

              Originally posted by Bub View Post
              Can they refuse to serve a customer? Not check them out?
              Yes, they can ask them to put their mask on and then ask them to leave and not serve them.
              Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
              who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
              'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

              Comment


                Re: Covid-19

                Originally posted by Bub View Post
                Can they refuse to serve a customer? Not check them out?
                They can. Many won't, because the loud confrontation that will invariably ensue is hard to contain, and bad for business.

                You'll also have jerks who walk through the door of the grocery store wearing a mask, immediately take it off while shopping, then slip it back on to check out. They're defying people to confront them. Then, when a confrontation does happen, they'll drop a "if you're afraid, go ahead and wear a mask. I'm not afraid, so I shouldn't have to." The selfishness is extraordinary.

                "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                - President Barack Obama

                Comment


                  Re: Covid-19

                  Originally posted by Bub View Post
                  Can they refuse to serve a customer? Not check them out?
                  Of course they can. They do it all the time with no shirts or shoes rules. And I'll repeat, if the health department started shutting down businesses that were not in compliance, things would change quickly.

                  Comment


                    Re: Covid-19

                    Sounds like every store need a Mr. T walking around checking compliance.
                    Let the kids play.

                    Comment


                      Re: Covid-19

                      Originally posted by Bub View Post
                      Sounds like every store need a Mr. T walking around checking compliance.
                      With bars closed, there are plenty of bouncers out of work.

                      Comment


                        Re: Covid-19

                        Originally posted by Texsahara View Post
                        Of course they can. They do it all the time with no shirts or shoes rules. And I'll repeat, if the health department started shutting down businesses that were not in compliance, things would change quickly.
                        You want to hold small businesses accountable for what their customers do? Not good.

                        I have a friend that owns a restaurant. He recently had a reservation for a party of eight, which is the maximum allowable in Colorado right now. But they showed up with ten people. He seated them at two tables, six feet apart. And, sure enough, they moved the tables to butt them together. He quietly approached them and said, "if it was up to me, I'd let you all sit at one table, but if the County Health Department walks through the door, they're not going to cite you; they're going to cite me, and close my restaurant, and force my employees out of work."

                        Sheepishly, they moved the second table back to where it had been.

                        This shouldn't be necessary. Wear a damn mask. Follow the damn rules. Hold PEOPLE accountable, not businesses. In most cases, those businesses are doing the best that they can.

                        "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                        - President Barack Obama

                        Comment


                          Re: Covid-19

                          Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                          They can. Many won't, because the loud confrontation that will invariably ensue is hard to contain, and bad for business.

                          You'll also have jerks who walk through the door of the grocery store wearing a mask, immediately take it off while shopping, then slip it back on to check out. They're defying people to confront them. Then, when a confrontation does happen, they'll drop a "if you're afraid, go ahead and wear a mask. I'm not afraid, so I shouldn't have to." The selfishness is extraordinary.
                          I've seen people be reminded in a polite manner and they've immediately put it back on.

                          I've also told people to follow the arrows on the floor of our local supermarket. Most immediately follow the arrows. One was clearly a moron and didn't understand what to do with arrows in any situation.
                          Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
                          who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
                          'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

                          Comment


                            Re: Covid-19

                            Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                            You want to hold small businesses accountable for what their customers do? Not good.

                            I have a friend that owns a restaurant. He recently had a reservation for a party of eight, which is the maximum allowable in Colorado right now. But they showed up with ten people. He seated them at two tables, six feet apart. And, sure enough, they moved the tables to butt them together. He quietly approached them and said, "if it was up to me, I'd let you all sit at one table, but if the County Health Department walks through the door, they're not going to cite you; they're going to cite me, and close my restaurant, and force my employees out of work."

                            Sheepishly, they moved the second table back to where it had been.

                            This shouldn't be necessary. Wear a damn mask. Follow the damn rules. Hold PEOPLE accountable, not businesses. In most cases, those businesses are doing the best that they can.
                            So you site an example where it worked. Yes, businesses can and should be held accountable for allowing people not to follow health department regulations. They'll turn people away with no shirt or shoes all the time without hesitation. They have no problem refusing alcohol sales. Businesses hold individuals accountable all the time. And they are not doing the best they can if they are willing to put their employees at risk.

                            And of course it shouldn't be necessary but it is.

                            Comment


                              Re: Covid-19

                              Originally posted by ajra21 View Post
                              I've seen people be reminded in a polite manner and they've immediately put it back on.
                              But for every one of them, there are probably a half dozen who are looking for a confrontation.

                              There's a Facebook page that cropped up for restaurants in my community, giving them a place to post the rapidly-changing business climate. 'We're open for take-out only.' 'Wait, now we're open for patio dining.' 'Wait, now we're open for dining room service, but at 50% capacity, so please call ahead for a reservation.' That sort of thing.

                              And over the last couple weeks, an increasing number of them have posted that masks are now required as you enter, exit the restaurant, or head to the restroom. Basically, any situation other than sitting at your table. And, predictably enough, people started complaining. "I'm not coming to your restaurant if I have to wear a mask, and I'm probably not coming back when all this is over." More and more often, I'm seeing such remarks followed up with complete strangers saying "Good -- stay home."

                              If people are so bull-headed that they refuse to wear a mask in the face of health officials everywhere recommending we do so, reminding them in a 'polite manner' isn't going to get them to comply. People are jerks. That's unfortunate, but very true.

                              "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                              - President Barack Obama

                              Comment


                                Re: Covid-19

                                Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                                So, what's the benefit? If it's not a law, and there's no strict enforceability, the people who are refusing to wear masks are still going to refuse. The people the directive would be effective on are already wearing them.

                                The same holds true for Wal-Mart and Kroger and such. If the store says 'masks are mandatory' in an location where there is no such law, there's nothing they can do if someone removes their mask after entering the store.

                                I applaud efforts by businesspeople and local governments to promote the wear of masks. I'm just saying it's not appropriate to lambast a governor who has not issued a toothless state-wide order. If the order is nothing more than eye-wash, what does it achieve? That's why I used Polis as an example. He's leading. He's setting an example. He's encouraging localities to issue mask orders, but hasn't done so for all of Colorado, as he knows it would be unenforceable.

                                And I still don't understand how the wear of masks became a political issue rather than a matter of public health.
                                They can remove customers who refuse to wear them or refuse service to them.

                                People should wear seat belts, motorcycle helmets, not text and drive, yet even with laws some people ignore them.

                                You know it’s illegal to murder people yet for some reason we still have murders in the USA.

                                I honestly have no clue what the hell you are talking about some times.
                                Baseball is life;
                                the rest is just details.

                                Comment

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