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    Originally posted by Texsahara View Post

    Nursing homes are not always choices at least not in the way you are presenting it. Not sure if you are displaying ignorance or just being deliberately obtuse.
    ​​​​​
    I think we need a nationwide mandate. Full stop. Medical exemptions only. As it stands, if you work in a front facing job of any kind and you are choosing not to be vaccinated, yeah, you may have blood on your hands. I hold some people such as cops and healthcare workers to an even higher standard. Nothing but contempt for them.
    I'm doing neither of those things. I'm not anti-mandate (although NGL I am wary) and I'm not anti-vax. I'm anti-damning-47%-of-the-population-to-hell.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Texsahara View Post

      It's a public health crisis. It's not about them. They have no right to let the disease knock on my vaccinated door. They should not be allowed that "choice". Mandate vaccines. Full stop.
      I posted above with links the CDC's own concerns that while the vaccines clearly seem to reduce hospitalizations and deaths in those that receive them, there is not a certainty that it reduces transmissibility. It may be the vaccinated person that knocks on your door that brings ill tidings.

      Comment


        Originally posted by False1 View Post
        I posted above with links the CDC's own concerns that while the vaccines clearly seem to reduce hospitalizations and deaths in those that receive them, there is not a certainty that it reduces transmissibility. It may be the vaccinated person that knocks on your door that brings ill tidings.
        If you get COVID while vaccinated it appears that you can transmit just as much as an unvaccinated person with Covid.

        but a vaccinated individual is 5 to 8 times less likely to contact COViD in the first place v an unvaccinated vector.
        Baseball is life;
        the rest is just details.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post

          If you get COVID while vaccinated it appears that you can transmit just as much as an unvaccinated person with Covid.

          but a vaccinated individual is 5 to 8 times less likely to contact COViD in the first place v an unvaccinated vector.
          I haven’t seen that data, but would like to. Where is that from?

          Comment


            Originally posted by False1 View Post
            I haven’t seen that data, but would like to. Where is that from?
            You can try this one but there are plenty of studies on the various vaccine effectiveness.

            https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...183-8/fulltext
            Baseball is life;
            the rest is just details.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post

              You can try this one but there are plenty of studies on the various vaccine effectiveness.

              https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...183-8/fulltext
              Thanks. There are plenty of studies I've seen that speak clearly and plainly about the effectiveness of vaccines in terms of reducing severity of symptoms of infection in terms of lower incident rates of hospitalization and death... but I can't find one that speaks clearly and plainly making the case for effectiveness in the reduction of infection or transmission. As I said earlier, the CDC as of now says more research is needed on that.

              I tried to muscle through this one. It's odd that I'd have to. You'd think these researchers and the CDC would have a banner with GIFs and flashing lights around any meaningful study-borne statistic that shows that transmissibility is reduced by x% via vaccination.

              It seemed to be a bunch of gobbledygook (not surprising for a medical study) that might have had some data that could help draw that out, but the tables are situated in such a way that I could decipher transmission rate between the two groups.

              I did open the supplementary material and found appendix table 6 that shows cases relative to "person years." They shows the gross #s for unvaxxed and vaxxed but not the rates. But using their data in that table, for age group 16-44 (seems like a really odd grouping), here are the rates I derived from their data for cases per person year:
              • Unvaxxed: 0.36 cases per person year
              • Fully Vaxxed (<1 month): 0.29 cases per person year
              • Fully Vaxxed (>1 month <2 months): 0.57 cases per person year
              • Fully Vaxxed (>2 months <3 months): 0.15 cases per person year
              • Fully Vaxxed (>3 months <4 months): 0.29 cases per person year
              • Fully Vaxxed (>=5 months): 0.72 cases per person year

              That doesn't seem to support the 5 to 8 times less likely to contract Covid statistic you mentioned in your prior post. And if this study is in any way declarative, why the lack of declaration on this point? Why does some knucklehead like me have to have the combination of curiosity and boredom to take your link, review the massive block of words that is the study, find and download a separate appendix and manually calculate the data they have in some table I found there. Worse yet, I fully admit I'm not totally clear on whether I'm interpreting their data correctly to get to a meaningful rate comparison. Why not do the math and interpret it for the reader instead of risking misinterpretation?

              You'd think you'd see in their summarized view right at the very top, in bold size 80 font, something less like this...

              Our results provide support for high effectiveness of BNT162b2 against hospital admissions up until around 6 months after being fully vaccinated, even in the face of widespread dissemination of the delta variant. Reduction in vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infections over time is probably primarily due to waning immunity with time rather than the delta variant escaping vaccine protection.
              ....and more like this...
              • Vaccines reduce transmission rate by 5x
              • Vaccines reduce hospitalization rate by 10x
              • Vaccines reduce death rate by 20x

              ...yet we don't. Why is that?

              Also worth noting... this study was funded by Pfizer and performed by those with interests in Pfizer.

              JMZ, SG, KP, FJA, LJ, SRV, and JMM are employees of and hold stock and stock options in Pfizer. TBF holds shares of Pfizer stock. SYT, JMS, HF, VH, BKA, ONR, TBF, and OAO received research support from Pfizer during the conduct of this study that was paid directly to KPSC. For work unrelated to this project, SYT received research funding from Gilead, GlaxoSmithKline, and Genentech; BKA received research funding from GlaxoSmithKline, Novavax, Dynavax, Genentech, Novartis, Seqirus, and Moderna; JMS received research funding from Novavax, Dynavax, and ALK; and HF received research funding from Genentech.
              No one trusts big pharma until it says what they want to hear.

              Comment


                Originally posted by False1 View Post
                I posted above with links the CDC's own concerns that while the vaccines clearly seem to reduce hospitalizations and deaths in those that receive them, there is not a certainty that it reduces transmissibility. It may be the vaccinated person that knocks on your door that brings ill tidings.
                You should read more.

                Comment


                  Not the Onion.

                  FCF35aWXsAU770m?format=jpg&amp;name=small.jpg

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post


                    So if you were in my shoes would you get a J&J booster ASAP or wait to see if maybe they allow mix and match with Moderna at some point in the future?
                    Just an opinion. Thought you might be interested. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ooster-pfizer/

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
                      Jeepers
                      "Our work continues, the fight goes on, and the big dreams never die." -- Elizabeth Warren

                      Comment


                        Go get your Moderna, Greg.

                        The authorizations arrived in the middle of a busy stretch of regulatory decisions on vaccines.
                        "Our work continues, the fight goes on, and the big dreams never die." -- Elizabeth Warren

                        Comment


                          I'm J&J also. I need a boostah.
                          Sometimes I feel like my sell by date expired yesterday.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Texsahara View Post

                            You should read more.
                            I've read quite a bit actually. What I tend to read are things like the single link that has been offered here that put forth innuendo but don't come out with any even remotely declarative statements whatsoever. I'm anxious to see those and I want it to be true that vaccines reduce transmissibility. If you have something that shows it, I'd actually love to read it. And if it exists, why does the CDC not make that claim?

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by False1 View Post
                              I've read quite a bit actually. What I tend to read are things like the single link that has been offered here that put forth innuendo but don't come out with any even remotely declarative statements whatsoever. I'm anxious to see those and I want it to be true that vaccines reduce transmissibility. If you have something that shows it, I'd actually love to read it. And if it exists, why does the CDC not make that claim?
                              Reducing the chance of catching the disease in the first place Is exactly what efficacy of the clinical trials is all about. Unless the vaccine has greater than 50% efficacy it doesn’t have a chance at approval.

                              for example in clinical trials of 200 people, 100 with vaccine and 100 with placebo if 10 people in placebo get the disease and 2 people in the vaccine group get the disease the vaccine has an 80% efficacy.
                              Baseball is life;
                              the rest is just details.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by jlw1980 View Post
                                Go get your Moderna, Greg.
                                Yep! Getting my flu shot tonight and hopefully next week some mRNA goodness. Moderna-ville here I come.

                                Comment

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