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  • I C U Ms Frenchie
    replied
    You cant evaluate the draft picks in a vacuum. With his salary demands, they werent getting 2 firsts. So let me ask you this, wouldnt you rather have Allen Robinson, a 1st and a 2nd And an extra 12 mill in cap space for the next 5 years? Is the difference between the two 12 million plus the picks? I dont agree, but Im not angry about it either. Lets put it in more real terms. That 12 million gets you one of the top tier OTs on the FA market. And the 2 draft picks? Olave or a CB and Marvin Leal or 1 of the Georgia DT's. Dont get me wrong, Im excited to watch this offense. Their skill players are a match for KC's, but obviously Carr isnt Mahomes. Still this will be a top 5, maybe even top 3 offense if they fix RT. With maybe only about 22 mill in remaining cap space and no high picks how do they get Gilmore, a RT, a DT and a LB? I'll make this concession. If it comes out that Carr made a concession to sign for 30 mill as a condition for this trade, then I'll be happy about the trade. But its concerning that if they didnt, they will be using up to 70 million on 2 players. Just look at KC if you want to see a cautionary tale. Through 7 games last year KC looked like they might miss the playoffs. Their defense was rated one of the worst. But with Mahomes on his rookie deal, they had the financial flexibility that got them Mathieus, who totally turned their D around. Mahomes cap hit went up to 45 this year from, IIRC, less than 10 last year. Who was their first cap casualty? Mathieus.

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  • Yankees1962
    replied
    Originally posted by I C U Ms Frenchie View Post
    They just picked up 2 very good cornerbacks -- averett and Yasin. PFF has them very highly rated in man coverage. So obviously they are not going to have a zone defense. This should allow them to do more blitzing. Rumored to be talking contract with Stefon Gilmore as well. They swapped out 32 y/o Chandler Jones coming off injury for 27 y/o Ngoyae. Then traded Ngoyae for Yasin. There's some risk here with Jones due to age and injury, but he is a better pass rusher in his heyday. They cut Kwiatkowski, Littleton, Nassib and Alex Ingold. Im starting to feel much better about the defense, and especially if they get Gilmore. But 28 million per for Adams for 5 years for age 31-35 seasons plus their 1st and 2nd round picks is too much. They also made several special teams moves bringing in some minor Patriots players.
    Your math about Adams age is a little off.. He turned 29 last Christmas Eve which means he's playing for the most part 29-33 years. He turns 34 at the end of the fifth year. Let's be honest here, this trade and hooking up again with Carr is really about the next 3-4 football seasons. Giving up those two draft choices was a steal in my opinion. I thought it would take like two first round picks which is why I didn't think it would happen. Most football experts think this is a great trade for the Raiders. Most Raider fans are very happy with this trade. Your negative opinion is in the minority. Time will tell us, who was right or wrong.

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  • I C U Ms Frenchie
    replied
    They just picked up 2 very good cornerbacks -- averett and Yasin. PFF has them very highly rated in man coverage. So obviously they are not going to have a zone defense. This should allow them to do more blitzing. Rumored to be talking contract with Stefon Gilmore as well. They swapped out 32 y/o Chandler Jones coming off injury for 27 y/o Ngoyae. Then traded Ngoyae for Yasin. There's some risk here with Jones due to age and injury, but he is a better pass rusher in his heyday. They cut Kwiatkowski, Littleton, Nassib and Alex Ingold. Im starting to feel much better about the defense, and especially if they get Gilmore. But 28 million per for Adams for 5 years for age 31-35 seasons plus their 1st and 2nd round picks is too much. They also made several special teams moves bringing in some minor Patriots players.
    Last edited by I C U Ms Frenchie; 03-17-22, 10:50 PM.

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  • Yankees1962
    replied
    I think it’s a bold move! As much as I hated Gruden, it seems like you feel the same way about this new regime except you’re not giving them any time for see if their moves work or not. Having first round picks are fine, but you can’t waste them drafting the wrong players like Gruden.

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  • I C U Ms Frenchie
    replied
    Bad move. How can you give a wide receiver what he's asking for or anywhere near it? His contract is going to hamstring this team for years. This isnt basketball where 1 player can totally dominate another team. It a big splashy move and assuming they fix the RT position, and I have no doubt they will address it, the Raiders will have a top 5 offense. But it still will be limited by Carr's shortcomings when he is pressured and in the red zone. On top of it, there goes their 1st round pick plus another. I dont like this move. Sign Robinson. Dont give up any picks and he would be a little more than half as much. After Carr resigns they are going to have about 65 million tied up in 2 players. They just blew through 28 million of their 50 million cap space on 1 player and still have to fill RT, DT, CB, LB Could have signed Robinson and Julio Jones and still for less money.

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  • Yankees1962
    replied
    They traded for Davante Adams so it looks like they do want to make the playoffs this year.

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  • I C U Ms Frenchie
    replied
    What the hell are they doing?
    Traded Ngayoue
    Diont resign Hayward.
    Two of their best defensive players.
    Also let a low cost good upside player in Nick Morrow go to Chicago.

    Whiffed on JC Horn and watched him sign with SD.

    Looks like they dont seem concerned about making the playoffs this year.

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  • I C U Ms Frenchie
    replied
    Raiders earn B+ grade for 2021 draft class (yahoo.com)

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  • Yankees1962
    replied
    Originally posted by I C U Ms Frenchie View Post
    Lets start with Ferrell. Look at that draft class. It stunk. You had Murray and Bosa 1 and 2. Jets were #3 and Raiders were four. Look at picks 5-10. Presumably you would have the Raiders draft one of those. Devin White #5, Daniel Jones #6 Josh Allen (not the qb) #7 Hockenson #8, Ed Oliver #9. Look at PFFs grades for those players last year (Ferrells last year as a starter. He had as high or higher grades than all of those alternatives. So drafting Ferrell was shrewd. Its not his fault there wasnt better talent available that year.

    PFF: Raiders DE Clelin Ferrell is the team’s highest-graded defender (usatoday.com)

    The reason he only plays 50% of downs is because owing to Grudens talent evaluation expertise they had the #1 and #2 edge rushers in the NFL by # of pressures in Crosby and Ngouye according to PFF. Thats a good problem to have. Sure you hope to draft a cornerstone player at #4. But of the available alternatives I mentioned that were available, who is a corfnerstone player?


    WRT Ruggs, there is no way you can put that on Gruden. He's supposed to know that the guy was going to do that 2 years after the draft? Get real.

    WRT Abram, what are you expecting at #27? And he missed his entire rookie season, so he still has time to further develop. I agree his strength is vs the run, and weaker vs the pass. Can still be useful.

    WRT Leatherwood, just look at Kolton Miller's career trajectory. It is way to early to judge Leatherwood as a bad pick in round 1. And furthermore, youre also not considering the overall plan Gruden had for roster development. Why do you think the Raiders have >50 million in cap space this year? Replacing Trent Brown , Hudson and Gabe Jackson with Leatherwood, James and Good is a big part of that. With 50 million to spend and their core of talent, they should be able to have a SB contender next season. And it was widely reported that the Ravens were going to take Leatherwood in the 1st round. Just pretend they took Moerig in round 1 and Leatherwood in round 2 and youll have much less of an issue with that pick.
    Look at those grades for those other players prior to last year. They have been much more productive than Ferrell during the course of their short careers. There is little doubt that Ferrell's selection has been underwhelming to say the least.

    As to Ruggs, did the Raiders do everything possible in helping Ruggs before this tragic incident. Are they doing the same thing for Hobbs, who seems to be having similar issues.

    Abram is a limited safety and that's the best thing you can about him.

    As to Leatherwood, we'll see about him now that they've moved him to guard and will have different line protection schemes next season. I wasn't happy with that pick and most analysts pointed out why it was a reach at #17 in the first round.

    The Raiders first round picks have not been good whether it's the Raiders fault or not in regard to Ruggs. They need to do better than what has happened the last several years.

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  • I C U Ms Frenchie
    replied
    Lets start with Ferrell. Look at that draft class. It stunk. You had Murray and Bosa 1 and 2. Jets were #3 and Raiders were four. Look at picks 5-10. Presumably you would have the Raiders draft one of those. Devin White #5, Daniel Jones #6 Josh Allen (not the qb) #7 Hockenson #8, Ed Oliver #9. Look at PFFs grades for those players last year (Ferrells last year as a starter. He had as high or higher grades than all of those alternatives. So drafting Ferrell was shrewd. Its not his fault there wasnt better talent available that year.

    PFF: Raiders DE Clelin Ferrell is the team’s highest-graded defender (usatoday.com)

    The reason he only plays 50% of downs is because owing to Grudens talent evaluation expertise they had the #1 and #2 edge rushers in the NFL by # of pressures in Crosby and Ngouye according to PFF. Thats a good problem to have. Sure you hope to draft a cornerstone player at #4. But of the available alternatives I mentioned that were available, who is a corfnerstone player?


    WRT Ruggs, there is no way you can put that on Gruden. He's supposed to know that the guy was going to do that 2 years after the draft? Get real.

    WRT Abram, what are you expecting at #27? And he missed his entire rookie season, so he still has time to further develop. I agree his strength is vs the run, and weaker vs the pass. Can still be useful.

    WRT Leatherwood, just look at Kolton Miller's career trajectory. It is way to early to judge Leatherwood as a bad pick in round 1. And furthermore, youre also not considering the overall plan Gruden had for roster development. Why do you think the Raiders have >50 million in cap space this year? Replacing Trent Brown , Hudson and Gabe Jackson with Leatherwood, James and Good is a big part of that. With 50 million to spend and their core of talent, they should be able to have a SB contender next season. And it was widely reported that the Ravens were going to take Leatherwood in the 1st round. Just pretend they took Moerig in round 1 and Leatherwood in round 2 and youll have much less of an issue with that pick.

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  • Yankees1962
    replied
    Originally posted by I C U Ms Frenchie View Post
    Arnette is the only bust that comes to mind for 1st round picks. You can hardly lay blame on Gruden for Ruggs. He was a solid citizen in college. At the time of his accident he was outperforming Jeudy and was comparable to Lam ( virtually same yardage on significantly fewer catches). So Ruggs was a Good 1st round pick, considering they had to get a receiver there after the AB fiasco the previous season. Leatherwood? I wouldnt have taken him over Barmore, but its way too early to judge that pick. In 2018 they took Kolton Miller. Hes one of the best LTs now. In 2019, they took Ferrell, Jacobs and Abram. Thats all of the Gruden era's 1st round picks. Who besides Arnette is a bust?
    I'm sorry, but Ferrell is a bust after being drafted at #4 in the first round in 2019. At that draft position, you're looking at drafting a pro-bowl caliber player, not somebody that doesn't even play 50% of the plays on defense. As to Ruggs, it wasn't an accident, but an awful personal decision on his part. What happened to Ruggs isn't surprising based on some of the individuals the Raiders have recently drafted. Abram is a limited safety with coverage issues. He's more interested in delivering punishment than breaking up pass attempts. Furthermore, he seems to injure himself more than opposing receivers with his tackles. As to Leatherwood, that draft pick was questioned immediately as an overreach in the first round plus him grading out as a guard not a tackel.

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  • I C U Ms Frenchie
    replied
    Arnette is the only bust that comes to mind for 1st round picks. You can hardly lay blame on Gruden for Ruggs. He was a solid citizen in college. At the time of his accident he was outperforming Jeudy and was comparable to Lam ( virtually same yardage on significantly fewer catches). So Ruggs was a Good 1st round pick, considering they had to get a receiver there after the AB fiasco the previous season. Leatherwood? I wouldnt have taken him over Barmore, but its way too early to judge that pick. In 2018 they took Kolton Miller. Hes one of the best LTs now. In 2019, they took Ferrell, Jacobs and Abram. Thats all of the Gruden era's 1st round picks. Who besides Arnette is a bust?

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  • Yankees1962
    replied
    Originally posted by I C U Ms Frenchie View Post
    I know how much you like to credit Gruden, so this is for you.

    PFF names the Raiders as one of the best drafting teams in the NFL since 2019 (yahoo.com)
    There is no way getting around the fact that the Raiders blew several first round draft choices from 2019 until now. Sure, they hit on several lower round draft choices, but too many high first round picks have been busts since 2019, and that's a fact with a few reaches in that first round. The Ruggs situation really hurts because he was coming on and might have been developing into something special.

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  • I C U Ms Frenchie
    replied
    I know how much you like to credit Gruden, so this is for you.

    PFF names the Raiders as one of the best drafting teams in the NFL since 2019 (yahoo.com)

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  • I C U Ms Frenchie
    replied
    Josh McDaniels hired a real one to be the Raiders defensive coordinator - YouTube

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