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2021 Trade Deadline Discussion

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  • hardrain
    replied
    every single trade I have mad has backfired...I would be much better if I never traded!

    Leave a comment:


  • Zimmer's Helmet
    replied
    Originally posted by Mixwell View Post

    Looked at in a complete vacuum, I actually like the 2 bigger trades. Unfortunately, that's exactly how Cashman views the world of acquisitions and you can't do that. Context matters.

    I never had a realistic belief that Cashman's job was on the line. But I thought Boone might not survive this mess of a season. Now as days go by from the deadline, I am filled with dread that all these trades have done in reality is save Aaron Boone from being fired this offseason.
    Most definitely - Boone only survives if they clinch a post-season berth otherwise Cashman and Hal have their ready-made scapegoat.

    Barring an epic collapse into the abyss, I’m afraid we’re stuck with this ship of fools for the foreseeable future.

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  • Mixwell
    replied
    Originally posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post

    Make no mistake, these trades were engineered by a GM solely motivated to protect himself and Hal by pushing the narrative of: “we did everything we could to improve this ball club but ultimately the players failed”.

    There is no short or long term strategy with Cashman. Always winging it.
    Looked at in a complete vacuum, I actually like the 2 bigger trades. Unfortunately, that's exactly how Cashman views the world of acquisitions and you can't do that. Context matters.

    I never had a realistic belief that Cashman's job was on the line. But I thought Boone might not survive this mess of a season. Now as days go by from the deadline, I am filled with dread that all these trades have done in reality is save Aaron Boone from being fired this offseason.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zimmer's Helmet
    replied
    Originally posted by ThePinStripes View Post

    Each trade is fine, except it’s a waste of prospects because it didn’t change a thing. This team is still a fringe playoff team.

    Cashman, again, won the trades and lost the war.

    imagine if the O’s made these trades. You’d be looking around saying “they’re fair trades but how did this help you organization?”
    Make no mistake, these trades were engineered by a GM solely motivated to protect himself and Hal by pushing the narrative of: “we did everything we could to improve this ball club but ultimately the players failed”.

    There is no short or long term strategy with Cashman. Always winging it.

    Leave a comment:


  • ThePinStripes
    replied
    Originally posted by YankeeBluedevil View Post
    I agree I think they were trying to shop Voit for a pitcher and it didn't work out. None of these prospects they gave up are going to the big league anytime soon. I don't love Cash either and Boone is a puppet, but all of getting on Cash for these deals are delusional. He did a helluva job.
    Each trade is fine, except it’s a waste of prospects because it didn’t change a thing. This team is still a fringe playoff team.

    Cashman, again, won the trades and lost the war.

    imagine if the O’s made these trades. You’d be looking around saying “they’re fair trades but how did this help you organization?”
    Last edited by ThePinStripes; 08-02-21, 07:58 AM.

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  • YankeeBluedevil
    replied
    I agree I think they were trying to shop Voit for a pitcher and it didn't work out. None of these prospects they gave up are going to the big league anytime soon. I don't love Cash either and Boone is a puppet, but all of getting on Cash for these deals are delusional. He did a helluva job.

    Leave a comment:


  • pWi
    replied
    Originally posted by primetime714 View Post

    Agree to disagree on his value. I don’t think he’d return much which is why he wasn’t traded.

    As for positional lineup, three things:
    1) They rarely run the same 9 day after day, so there will be plenty of opportunities for Voit
    2) the Yankees need a reason to play Stanton in the OF otherwise they’ll never even try it when the DH is available. And I think what they’re saying now about their plans is more of a cautious way of not getting ahead of themselves with Stanton in the OF in case it backfires.
    3) Injuries make logjams moot most of the time
    Re: "2)" I hope so. Then all is well.

    Re: "3)" In theory, a balanced roster is always the most optimal route to go. Too much or too little is going to cause more problems than not. I'm under the impression that Cashman's acquisition of Rizzo was a 2-part plan. He was trying to shop Voit because of this move, but it just didn't pan out.

    Leave a comment:


  • primetime714
    replied
    Originally posted by pWi View Post

    I never seriously considered selling Voit before Rizzo--although it might be a little strong to say we'd be selling low. He's been a force in the bigs over a pretty decent sample size, so everybody knows what they'll get if they acquired Voit. I'm not entirely convinced his injuries drastically affected his perceived value from other ball clubs, but I could be wrong.

    The issue I've had is the acquisition of Rizzo without the (seemingly) intent to play Stanton LF and Voit DH. That is what's baffling to me. I've been saying it since acquiring Rizzo that we can make it work with Stanton in LF and Voit as our DH without dealing Voit, but the last I heard, whenever they bluntly ask what their plan is with Stanton going forward, it's always that he's in LF atm because we're away against an NL team, and will be back to DH regardless.
    Agree to disagree on his value. I don’t think he’d return much which is why he wasn’t traded.

    As for positional lineup, three things:
    1) They rarely run the same 9 day after day, so there will be plenty of opportunities for Voit
    2) the Yankees need a reason to play Stanton in the OF otherwise they’ll never even try it when the DH is available. And I think what they’re saying now about their plans is more of a cautious way of not getting ahead of themselves with Stanton in the OF in case it backfires.
    3) Injuries make logjams moot most of the time

    Leave a comment:


  • pWi
    replied
    Originally posted by primetime714 View Post

    I actually like that they kept Voit because of the pressure it puts on the organization to play Stanton in the OF with Judge and Gallo. Its our best team. Stanton back to the OF is something they should've done a while ago, but they never had the roster to force the issue. This is that roster and that situation that forces the urgency to win games and do what it takes. If Stanton holds up well maybe we'll see more of it going forward.

    Plus I think its foolish to sell Voit in the middle of a bad injury prone season. Sure, I guess if you think this is the norm for Voit going forward, fine, but I think it would be selling at a low point. He wasn't returning a significant upgrade in CF or the rotation, better to keep him.
    I never seriously considered selling Voit before Rizzo--although it might be a little strong to say we'd be selling low. He's been a force in the bigs over a pretty decent sample size, so everybody knows what they'll get if they acquired Voit. I'm not entirely convinced his injuries drastically affected his perceived value from other ball clubs, but I could be wrong.

    The issue I've had is the acquisition of Rizzo without the (seemingly) intent to play Stanton LF and Voit DH. That is what's baffling to me. I've been saying it since acquiring Rizzo that we can make it work with Stanton in LF and Voit as our DH without dealing Voit, but the last I heard, whenever they bluntly ask what their plan is with Stanton going forward, it's always that he's in LF atm because we're away against an NL team, and will be back to DH regardless.


    Originally posted by False1 View Post
    I'm a huge Voit fanboi so I was concerned they were going to move him for the sake of moving him. My offseason with would be for the Yankees to find a way to move Stanton and slot Voit in at DH while signing a FA like Rizzo or Freeman. Voit hits LHP, RHP, hits situationally... he's legit and will be reasonably priced the next few years (especially if he's FT DH).

    That said, if they can't move Stanton or if he can't be a regular OF again, I would have been ok with a Berrios trade involving Voit. They almost have to move him if Stanton is going to be the DH to get his glove off the diamond and also to reduce his injury risk.
    Yes. Hence my rant.

    It is a baffling acquisition if neither scenario occurred:

    a) Voit/Stanton is dealt, or

    b) Stanton in LF/ Voit DH

    Can't deal Voit now the deadline is over, so if Stanton isn't our primary LF and Voit isn't our primary DH when he comes back, the Rizzo move makes no sense when Gardner, Wade, Allen, Odor get the start over Voit: our new overqualified 2nd DH, when we could have traded such wasted value for a much needed solid arm or 2

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  • Zimmer's Helmet
    replied
    Originally posted by ThePinStripes View Post

    False1 or me, lol
    My comments were directed at False1 but you’re a good egg too!

    Leave a comment:


  • Vazquez
    replied
    Originally posted by ThePinStripes View Post

    It’s not the trades, in and of them selves. It’s that they traded away prospects for impact players that will only be here when the Yankees aren’t contenders.
    it was either too much or not enough.
    I can get behind the idea that you either go all in or you don’t. It makes the trade for Heaney and of Cessa that much more head scratching.

    Leave a comment:


  • ThePinStripes
    replied
    Originally posted by Vazquez View Post
    Just catching up after a week without internet. Gallo deal - super fair all around in my opinion. Rangers def did their research and Duran has elite exit velos and Smith is a hard-nosed SS with 20-20 potential and has hit at every level. But overall, a good risk on the Yanks side to add a power Lefty bat with an add’l year of control.

    (As Rizzo hits his 2nd Bomb) Bummed about Alcantara. Felt like an overpay, but I am high on Kevin (I have 15 Bowman Chrome 1sts). Reason he’s ranked lower on lists (albeit 120 on FG) is he’s just starting his MiLB career. He’s a 70 runner, 6’5” CF, already adding muscle and generates elite bat speed and is High School aged. I truly feel that with proper development, Kevin can be a Top 25 in all of baseball in the next 3 years, he’s super talented. Cubs got a very good one.

    What made me feel better is that with these deals Jasson, Peraza, Volpe, Medina and Wells were spared and that NYY has handshake agreements with the consensus #1 and #3 International FA next class - Rodrick Arias #1, SS and Brandon Mayea #3, CF to replenish the farm. OF should (hopefully) be crunched down the road with Jasson and several of the SS prospects moving to the grass, so the sting isn’t as bad.
    It’s not the trades, in and of them selves. It’s that they traded away prospects for impact players that will only be here when the Yankees aren’t contenders.
    it was either too much or not enough.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yankees51
    replied
    Stanton can hit in San Diego. Maybe the front office can pay half his salary and hope they will take him? Stanton and Hicks are both fireable offenses.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vazquez
    replied
    Just catching up after a week without internet. Gallo deal - super fair all around in my opinion. Rangers def did their research and Duran has elite exit velos and Smith is a hard-nosed SS with 20-20 potential and has hit at every level. But overall, a good risk on the Yanks side to add a power Lefty bat with an add’l year of control.

    (As Rizzo hits his 2nd Bomb) Bummed about Alcantara. Felt like an overpay, but I am high on Kevin (I have 15 Bowman Chrome 1sts). Reason he’s ranked lower on lists (albeit 120 on FG) is he’s just starting his MiLB career. He’s a 70 runner, 6’5” CF, already adding muscle and generates elite bat speed and is High School aged. I truly feel that with proper development, Kevin can be a Top 25 in all of baseball in the next 3 years, he’s super talented. Cubs got a very good one.

    What made me feel better is that with these deals Jasson, Peraza, Volpe, Medina and Wells were spared and that NYY has handshake agreements with the consensus #1 and #3 International FA next class - Rodrick Arias #1, SS and Brandon Mayea #3, CF to replenish the farm. OF should (hopefully) be crunched down the road with Jasson and several of the SS prospects moving to the grass, so the sting isn’t as bad.

    Leave a comment:


  • primetime714
    replied
    Originally posted by dpbddd99 View Post
    It might be my frustration coming out but compared to other teams we overpaid with prospects.
    Maybe, I kind of feel the opposite way. I think we gave up a lot of flier types, maybe one of them is a guy we really regret, but no way to know which one. There's probably a few major leaguers among them, but unlikely any stars. And almost no one that will be ML ready in the next year. The price on Rizzo as a rental seemed somewhat high, but makes sense with the salary contributions from Chicago. A bit aggressive for this year when their chances are slim, but in the big picture he's a guy they should look hard at in free agency this offseason before the trade so it potentially gives them a leg up there.

    Leave a comment:

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