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2021-2022 Off Season Thread

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    Surprised that article was on the athletic. Sounds like a fan’s pipe dream wish list
    Listen to the bell Grossbard, it tolls for thee.

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      I’d take a chance on Syndergarrd, starsburg was able to get over early injuries

      Comment


        Originally posted by TexasYank23 View Post
        I’d take a chance on Syndergarrd, starsburg was able to get over early injuries
        IS he a free agent?

        Comment


          Originally posted by hhill View Post
          Here are trades proposed by the Athletic, see what u think:
          Then owner Hal Steinbrenner must do something he doesn’t like to do and play checkbook baseball on this year’s free-agent class and target center fielder Starling Marte, shortstop Corey Seager and starting pitchers Justin Verlander and this year’s Cy Young Award front-runner Robbie Ray.

          Trade first baseman Luke Voit, second baseman Gleyber Torres and right-handed pitcher Domingo Germán to the Oakland Athletics for first baseman Matt Olson.

          Trade outfielder Clint Frazier and third baseman Miguel Andújar to the Miami Marlins in exchange for right-handed starting pitcher Pablo López if his medicals are cleared.

          Trade top right-handed pitching prospects Deivi García and Yoendrys Gómez along with catcher Gary Sánchez to the Chicago Cubs in exchange for catcher Willson Contreras.



          They’d be getting younger — Olson, Seager and Lopez are all just 25-27 years old.

          • They’d be more athletic — Marte’s ability to steal bases and his high on-base percentage could help boost traffic and that could help Stanton, Judge and Gallo turn solo homers into three-run shots.

          • Add even more power — Olson would be an upgrade from both Rizzo and Voit offensively and defensively.

          • Improve on-base percentage — Beyond Marte, Seager gets on base at a 39 percent clip and Olsen at 37 percent.

          • Improve the catching position — It’s time to get a better all-around catcher than Sánchez. I can’t watch him go to the backstop one more time.

          • The starting rotation would be much stronger and deeper — Adding Ray, López and Verlander (if he comes back close to his elite form) would potentially give the Yankees the best rotation in the league. I’m expecting Cole to be better in his second full year in pinstripes and if Luis Severino can stay healthy, he should be dominant as well.

          Wow, can't believe The Athletic published this. Ridiculous on many levels IMO.

          1. I know they said Hal needs to open the checkbook but this would be about $350M. Why not add Max Scherzer, Semien, Iglesias (closer), ... while they are at it?

          2. All those trades are lopsided. We would be overpaying for Contreras and Olson and underpaying for Pablo Lopez by even more.

          3. The rotation would presumably be: Cole, Ray, Verlander, Lopez, and Sevy. That means Montgomery, Taillon, and Cortes would not make the rotation (not to mention Gil, Clarke Schmidt, Heaney when he gets re-signed (kidding but maybe too soon to joke about this), ...).

          Comment


            Originally posted by False1 View Post

            https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/crapshoot



            The much better description is that the playoffs are a gauntlet. It is VERY challenging to make it through the WC>ALDS>ALCS>WS. A lot can go wrong to be sure. Teams that aren't favored to win can indeed win, and teams that are expected to lose sometimes don't lose. Which is specifically why it is advantageous to invest in and bolster the roster in incremental ways in the offseasons and prior to the trade deadline to improve your odds.

            A crapshoot (in the very intentional context that the Yankee FO wants you to take it in) implies that all of those outcomes are random and you cannot take incremental proactive actions to improve your odds. "We could have signed Bryce Harper to play LF a few years ago, but it's all a crapshoot so here's a free Joey Gallo instead."

            Things that are not synonymous include Hal/Cashman and Fisher/Beane (or Forst).
            I agree for the most part with one small caveat. There were 34 division series played involving wild card teams between 1995 and 2011. The WC team won 18 of those 34 series match ups, 53% of the time. You can't pass that off as a statistical anomaly or say "well, sometimes teams that aren't favored to win, win." That's a #4/5 seed knocking off a #1 seed more than half the time. This doesn't take into account all the other minor upsets that took place over that same time span. I chose to focus on the series that would have the biggest favorite/odds to win. From 2012-19 when MLB introduced a WC game, the percentage went down slightly. WC teams won 7 in 16 opportunities, winning just 44% of the time. On paper, one team can have significant advantages over the other but once the games are played, all bets are off.

            We could have had Bryce Harper a few years ago but then we wouldn't have Cole. You can have the most accomplished hitter(s) of all-time but if you can't pitch, you don't win. Phillie fans are finding that one out first hand. And yeah, Joey Gallo was a swing and a miss, both literally and figuratively. And I do think Cashman has tried to improve the team incrementally. Unfortunately for him, he's not very good at his job. Cashman is only really good at one thing, spending other people's money.

            Comment


              Originally posted by sjb23 View Post



              Here's my thoughts, FWIW:

              Yes I think German can replace Marquez - he can potentially become a #2 or #3 starter for a lot less money. Add another promising pitching prospect who is very close to sticking on a MLB roster in 2022 (Schmidt/Gil/Medina-pick one) and the package should get some attention.

              Now add Joey Gallo (eligible for arbitration, I think - which should be about $7M), who has a year before he hits free agency. Gallo would be motivated to improve his value with a reboud year in Colorado. Let's say he hits his career avg (about .210) and whiffs 200 times. But say he hits 40-50 bombs. Let's also speculate that a newly created position (DH) might be a reality in 2022.

              The Rockies are losing Trevor Story, probably. Gallo can help sell a few tickets and possibly flourish in a less-pressurized situation than NY, I'm thinking. And as you suggested, if he has a good 1st half the Rockies might be able to deal him for a good prospect or more. His salary is covered by the money the team saves by trading Marquez.

              As far as the catcher - meh. I like that he's a lefty bat, he's smaller and more agile than Sanchez, and he can platoon with Higashioka, and the Rockies have another catcher they could start. But this is assuming Sanchez gets dealt. If you think a better deal is substituting Gallo for Sanchez, I'd go with that. The end result will be a pretty good compliment in the rotation with Cole, Severino & Taillon, while putting less dependency on Montgomery. The offense will be shedding at least 350 strikeouts between Gallo and Sanchez if both are dealt.

              If the Yanks decide to sign someone like Seager (my preference), I'd add Volpe or Peraza if necessary - and I like both prospects quite a bit.

              I think the pitching rotation will be better with Marquez than with German and Schmidt/Gil/Medina/pick one. They still get to keep two of the three prospects.

              I think this offense can be better without Gallo and Sanchez.

              And I think the Rockies walk away with some good building tools.@ a minimal cost.
              Maybe German can become a #2 or (more likely) a #3 starter. But Marquez is that now and while he costs more he is also on an attractive deal for teams seeking SP. The goal of a team like the Rockies - if they even decide to do a rebuild - is not to trade their most valuable chips for players that *might* if everything shakes out become the players they dealt away. Not to mention, German has PR baggage.

              Same with Gallo. Why would they trade something of material value now for a guy like Gallo who (as you say) if he hits 40-50 bombs *might* have trade value at the deadline? Also, it's entirely possible - as the recent data with Gallo hitting at a park that many lefty power hitters would love to call home would support - that he does not hit 40-50 bombs and continue to struggle to eclipse the Mendoza mark with 200+ strikeouts. Then what? How many tickets did Gallo sell at Yankee Stadium?

              I get why you like Marquez and personally while he wouldn't be my preferred target I can understand wanting to acquire him. That said, you're going to have to come up with an offer that makes sense not just for the team you root for, but especially for the team that has the asset you want.

              Also, I get why you want to add LH hitters to the lineup, but C seems to be an odd place to be so laser focused on it given the lack of quality catchers in general and especially those that hit from that side. Get LH balance elsewhere... like at SS.

              Comment


                Originally posted by hhill View Post
                Here are trades proposed by the Athletic, see what u think:
                Then owner Hal Steinbrenner must do something he doesn’t like to do and play checkbook baseball on this year’s free-agent class and target center fielder Starling Marte, shortstop Corey Seager and starting pitchers Justin Verlander and this year’s Cy Young Award front-runner Robbie Ray.
                I'd like Marte, I'd love Seager... but honestly I don't think SP is where they need to make major investments. Plus, I know Verlander is other-worldly but Father Time catches up to everyone and who knows how much the sticky stuff helped him. We haven't seen him without it and he's effectively missed two full seasons now. If he wanted a one year deal similar to what Kluber got? Maybe. But that's now how I'd invest my money on this roster. Also, I was one of the few here that wanted Cashman to acquire Ray at the deadline in '20 as a cheap project for Blake to work on. But he's exactly the guy I would NOT want the Yankees to lock into now with a fat, multi-year deal. We missed that opportunity and should not compound that mistake now.

                Trade first baseman Luke Voit, second baseman Gleyber Torres and right-handed pitcher Domingo Germán to the Oakland Athletics for first baseman Matt Olson.
                I love Voit's bat and I believe in German's upside, but if this is even remotely possible Cashman should be ALL OVER THIS. Even add to it.

                Trade outfielder Clint Frazier and third baseman Miguel Andújar to the Miami Marlins in exchange for right-handed starting pitcher Pablo López if his medicals are cleared.
                Same with this. This would be an absolute coup. I don't see why the Marlins would want two broken players - in spite of their upside and their windows of proven production at the ML level - but if they would, get this done. I'd be shocked if some other team didn't blow that offer out of the water though.

                Trade top right-handed pitching prospects Deivi García and Yoendrys Gómez along with catcher Gary Sánchez to the Chicago Cubs in exchange for catcher Willson Contreras.
                I haven't completely given up on Garcia, but would still probably give up those two + Sanchez to get Contreras who is an upgrade on both sides of the game. Plus, the Sanchez experiment needs to end.


                I like a lot of this. And in spite of people saying how much this would cost and how it would deplete some of the system's young, cost controlled talent I think this is the type of bold "rebuild on the fly" action this team needs to be a serious contender. Personally I'd avoid Verlander and especially Ray, save those dollars and see what Cleveland will command for JRam. JRam, Olson, Seager and Marte would completely revamp this offense overnight. I think with what we saw from the pitching staff this year in Blake's first true full season with the team, with Severino back in the mix with German, Schmidt, Gil... I'd probably look to replace Kluber but that's about it. I'd love that Lopez deal (although I think it would take a much different package).

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Benefactor View Post

                  I agree for the most part with one small caveat. There were 34 division series played involving wild card teams between 1995 and 2011. The WC team won 18 of those 34 series match ups, 53% of the time. You can't pass that off as a statistical anomaly or say "well, sometimes teams that aren't favored to win, win." That's a #4/5 seed knocking off a #1 seed more than half the time. This doesn't take into account all the other minor upsets that took place over that same time span. I chose to focus on the series that would have the biggest favorite/odds to win. From 2012-19 when MLB introduced a WC game, the percentage went down slightly. WC teams won 7 in 16 opportunities, winning just 44% of the time. On paper, one team can have significant advantages over the other but once the games are played, all bets are off.
                  Using seeds as proxies for depth of rosters is where I think the disconnect is. I think in baseball with its 162 game regular season seeds aren't especially good indicators of odds of victory. People talk about the 2019 Nationals all the time as a WC team that won it all. People forget that the reason they were a wild card team is because they got off to a catastrophic start (19-31), but really the team they were going into October was the team that won 74 of the remaining 112 (.661 W%, good for a 107 full season win pace). The seed was meaningless in terms of their ability to compete against higher seeded teams, especially with a top 3 of Scherzer, Strasburg and Corbin.

                  We could have had Bryce Harper a few years ago but then we wouldn't have Cole. You can have the most accomplished hitter(s) of all-time but if you can't pitch, you don't win. Phillie fans are finding that one out first hand. And yeah, Joey Gallo was a swing and a miss, both literally and figuratively. And I do think Cashman has tried to improve the team incrementally. Unfortunately for him, he's not very good at his job. Cashman is only really good at one thing, spending other people's money.
                  I refuse to accept that the Yankees would have had to close their doors permanently if they decided they needed Cole after previously signing Harper. They want you to think they can't, and the CBT gives them some cover in that regard, but especially now that they've reset the CBT it is time to flex those financial muscles. If they want to reduce payroll, they can discontinue wasting a few million here and there around the margins, but they'd better not claim poverty when you have young elite up-the-middle talent available when it represents such a massive need for their roster.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Strategerie View Post

                    Wow, can't believe The Athletic published this. Ridiculous on many levels IMO.

                    1. I know they said Hal needs to open the checkbook but this would be about $350M. Why not add Max Scherzer, Semien, Iglesias (closer), ... while they are at it?

                    2. All those trades are lopsided. We would be overpaying for Contreras and Olson and underpaying for Pablo Lopez by even more.

                    3. The rotation would presumably be: Cole, Ray, Verlander, Lopez, and Sevy. That means Montgomery, Taillon, and Cortes would not make the rotation (not to mention Gil, Clarke Schmidt, Heaney when he gets re-signed (kidding but maybe too soon to joke about this), ...).
                    1. I'm too lazy to do the math at the moment but not sure it would be $350MM. That said, I wouldn't go after Verlander except with maybe a Kluber-like deal and I'd avoid Ray at all costs personally. I wanted them to buy low on him but I would not give him a mega deal coming off last season. So I'd take them out of the equation.

                    2. I agree that Contreras might be a slight overpay, but Contreras has a much lower floor than Sanchez on both sides of the ball and if there going to go all in, that's a trade I'd make. Deivi may be broken and Gomez is their 10th prospect but he's years away. However, I completely disagree on that price tag for Olson being an overpay. I'm one of Voit's biggest supporters here, but I'd make that deal without blinking and I'm quite confident some other GM would blow that offer out of the water.

                    3. Yeah, this doesn't make sense to me. I want the Yankees to spend big (or rebuild if they won't go all in) but the rotation isn't where I'd do it. I'd probably replace Kluber (would LOVE that Lopez deal but agree that price would be much higher) but that's about it. Assuming Cole pitches like 1st half Cole and not 2nd half Cole (and all of this is kind of moot if he doesn't) the rotation should have sufficient depth. But that lineup needs a MASSIVE overhaul.



                    Comment


                      Originally posted by spanky185 View Post

                      And sounds like that one size fits all pitching philosophy ruined Devi this year
                      Heads should roll over what they did to Deivi.
                      "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

                      Comment


                        They won’t spend big if the luxury tax survives into the new CBA. They may go over but their going to put themselves in a position to go back under at some point in the next few years, which means no new mega contracts, only short term deals.

                        The luxury tax has ruined the Yankees biggest advantage. And the fact the Yankees are able to give out long term contracts very much reduces their year to year flexibility. And before you mention the Dodgers, they too give themselves the flexibility to go under the tax if necessary. They’ve only got about 211 committed for next years squad. They had a fantastic team and went for it this year. Props to them. But the luxury tax will catch up to them too if unchecked.

                        If you want the team to look drastically different, root for the luxury tax to vanish in this CBA.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by osuwarrior00 View Post
                          They won’t spend big if the luxury tax survives into the new CBA. They may go over but their going to put themselves in a position to go back under at some point in the next few years, which means no new mega contracts, only short term deals.

                          The luxury tax has ruined the Yankees biggest advantage. And the fact the Yankees are able to give out long term contracts very much reduces their year to year flexibility. And before you mention the Dodgers, they too give themselves the flexibility to go under the tax if necessary. They’ve only got about 211 committed for next years squad. They had a fantastic team and went for it this year. Props to them. But the luxury tax will catch up to them too if unchecked.

                          If you want the team to look drastically different, root for the luxury tax to vanish in this CBA.
                          It’s not the LT that has ruined the Yankees. It’s how Hal and Brian have decided to (mis)manage it. They’re focused on saving pennies when they could be winning championships and making a lot more dollars
                          "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post

                            It’s not the LT that has ruined the Yankees. It’s how Hal and Brian have decided to (mis)manage it. They’re focused on saving pennies when they could be winning championships and making a lot more dollars
                            Or, taking it another step, it's pretty ridiculous that Hal is so focused on the pennies beyond the original $200M "principal," yet remains unshakably loyal to the guy who is grossly misspending that $200m year after year after year.

                            It doesn't seem to even occur to him that if he'd just cast off his Cashman binky and face the big scary world out there, that there might be some execs to hire who in time could build him a better, and maybe even more profitable team ... And maybe could do it for somewhat less than $200 million!

                            I believe the term is "penny wise, pound foolish."

                            I hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd, when they said "sit down" I stood up.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by HelloNewman View Post
                              Or, taking it another step, it's pretty ridiculous that Hal is so focused on the pennies beyond the original $200M "principal," yet remains unshakably loyal to the guy who is grossly misspending that $200m year after year after year.

                              It doesn't seem to even occur to him that if he'd just cast off his Cashman binky and face the big scary world out there, that there might be some execs to hire who in time could build him a better, and maybe even more profitable team ... And maybe could do it for somewhat less than $200 million!

                              I believe the term is "penny wise, pound foolish."
                              Right. Literally every pro-Cashman argument I have seen in the past 2 years revolve around the "finds" he has made and then "genius" way that he has managed the portion of the budget between $190 and $210 million. Not a single word from those folks on dollars 0 - $190 million.

                              Comment


                                The Dodgers have now advanced to the NLCS for the fifth time in the last six seasons. I will be shocked if they don't get past the Braves and end up in the WS for the fourth time in the last five seasons. It's a shame for baseball fans that MLB's absurd playoff format had the two best teams in the game playing in a division series of only five games.

                                Andrew Freidman inherited a strong Dodgers team, but has improved the entire organization during his time at the helm and they now are the premier franchise in the sport. NGL, I am jealous.

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