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What do you think the Yankees payroll should be?

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    What do you think the Yankees payroll should be?

    I often hear through out Yankee land that their payroll was so and so in 200x and since then their revenue went up by Z and their payroll has only gone up by a small amount yet ticket prices keep climbing. All of that is true but it looks at things through a very narrow timeframe. In 1997 (the year before Cashman took over) the payroll was $59M. The #2 team was the Orioles at $55M. In 2005 it was $205M. The #2 team was the Red Sox at $121M. But ticket prices didn't go up 3.5 times in those 8 years.

    The other owners didn't like the Yankees spending as much as possible and that's why they started to reign them in with the tax. Now the Yankees are back in line with the other top spending teams. They took a different path to get there but overall, their payroll has gone from $59M in 1997 to $258M in 2020. That is payroll going up about 4.4 times in those years.

    To me, their lack of commitment to winning is not about what they are spending (they are still a top spending team since the last CBA), their lack of commitment to winning is about who is spending it. Other teams have more chances to win it all than the Yankees.

    But I'm only one opinion. Ignoring the upcoming CBA and only going by the "current" CBA rules (as of yesterday), what do you think the Yankees payroll should be and why?
    16
    It should be lower (I know but I have to put this as an option)
    0%
    0
    They are where they should be
    0%
    0
    They are where they should be but should never dip under the tax
    0%
    0
    Between $250M and $300M and never dip under the tax
    18.75%
    3
    Between $300M and $350M and never dip under the tax
    25.00%
    4
    $350M+ and never dip under the tax
    6.25%
    1
    They should spend X% of revenue (post X in your reply [pre-covid])
    0%
    0
    They should only make $XM in profit a year (post X in your reply [pre-covid])
    0%
    0
    Other (specify in your reply)
    50.00%
    8

    #2
    I think they should be over LT when they're in it to win it, but I also understand resetting LT.

    With that said, they always have to be over LT because they need at least 30% higher due than LT limit to compensate for Cashman handicap. If Hal wants to keep his buddy there, it's going to cost him another $50-60M/yr to get the same results.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

    Comment


      #3
      Other.

      I don't care about the payroll. It's none of my business. I care about the composition of the team. I care about the talent.

      Obviously, it takes payroll to get or keep talent. Unfortunately, the system in place forces teams to overpay in later years to get players now. So, a lot of payroll in any given year is going to be the result of signing a player a couple years ago. Football has a certain amount of guaranteed salary built into their deals, but teams have the ability to cut ties with an unproductive player, saving the non-guaranteed portion of the negotiated salary. Perhaps something like this would prevent the need to pay the Ellsburys and Hicks when they're not actually playing.

      In the long run, I don't trust Cashman to assemble the right pieces and parts, regardless of what the checkbook budget is. And, despite being a Yankee fan for over a half Century, I don't want a team assembled based solely on the team's ability to outspend others.

      "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
      - President Barack Obama

      Comment


        #4
        Between $250M and $300M and dip under the tax whenever they need to.The tax ceiling should be around $230M and adjust annually by about 5% - IMO payroll costs will always increase in any line of business, and organizations who prosper should be sharing the wealth with their employees.
        "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

        Comment


          #5
          This franchise literally prints money - the YES network alone is worth 3 billion

          should be 250-300mil

          Comment


            #6
            I just want Hal to be comfortable. That's my only concern.
            Sometimes I feel like my sell by date expired yesterday.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
              Other.

              I don't care about the payroll. It's none of my business. I care about the composition of the team. I care about the talent.

              Obviously, it takes payroll to get or keep talent. Unfortunately, the system in place forces teams to overpay in later years to get players now. So, a lot of payroll in any given year is going to be the result of signing a player a couple years ago. Football has a certain amount of guaranteed salary built into their deals, but teams have the ability to cut ties with an unproductive player, saving the non-guaranteed portion of the negotiated salary. Perhaps something like this would prevent the need to pay the Ellsburys and Hicks when they're not actually playing.

              In the long run, I don't trust Cashman to assemble the right pieces and parts, regardless of what the checkbook budget is. And, despite being a Yankee fan for over a half Century, I don't want a team assembled based solely on the team's ability to outspend others.
              I'm more in this camp, and have a difficult time picking an answer. (OK, I guess it's other)

              I want to see the Yankees be successful and win championships. I think their biggest impediment is not their payroll, but mismanagement of their payroll and the team more generally. Signing big FA's to 10 year contracts is not a long term solution to their challenges. Sure, the occasional name brand free agent will help but, with their resources, they should be outplaying every other team in areas like analytics, drafting, development, etc. (And, guess what? None of these areas would be subject to the luxury tax). They're not leaders in these areas, and that fact brings us to the place where we have to hope they sign 2-3 exorbitant contracts every winter to make them competitive with the best teams.

              Comment


                #8
                I dont think anyone is upset about total spending. They're upset about 1) how the money is being spent and 2) being "this close" and not going for the kill because Cashman thinks its more important to win trades than the world series.
                A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ThePinStripes View Post
                  I think they should be over LT when they're in it to win it, but I also understand resetting LT.

                  With that said, they always have to be over LT because they need at least 30% higher due than LT limit to compensate for Cashman handicap. If Hal wants to keep his buddy there, it's going to cost him another $50-60M/yr to get the same results.
                  Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                  Other.

                  I don't care about the payroll. It's none of my business. I care about the composition of the team. I care about the talent.

                  Obviously, it takes payroll to get or keep talent. Unfortunately, the system in place forces teams to overpay in later years to get players now. So, a lot of payroll in any given year is going to be the result of signing a player a couple years ago. Football has a certain amount of guaranteed salary built into their deals, but teams have the ability to cut ties with an unproductive player, saving the non-guaranteed portion of the negotiated salary. Perhaps something like this would prevent the need to pay the Ellsburys and Hicks when they're not actually playing.

                  In the long run, I don't trust Cashman to assemble the right pieces and parts, regardless of what the checkbook budget is. And, despite being a Yankee fan for over a half Century, I don't want a team assembled based solely on the team's ability to outspend others.
                  Originally posted by YFIB View Post

                  I'm more in this camp, and have a difficult time picking an answer. (OK, I guess it's other)

                  I want to see the Yankees be successful and win championships. I think their biggest impediment is not their payroll, but mismanagement of their payroll and the team more generally. Signing big FA's to 10 year contracts is not a long term solution to their challenges. Sure, the occasional name brand free agent will help but, with their resources, they should be outplaying every other team in areas like analytics, drafting, development, etc. (And, guess what? None of these areas would be subject to the luxury tax). They're not leaders in these areas, and that fact brings us to the place where we have to hope they sign 2-3 exorbitant contracts every winter to make them competitive with the best teams.
                  I'm curious. These all seem to be saying the same thing, which (to me) is "They are where they should be" but with a "They have the wrong GM" thrown on the end of it. However, none of you voted that way so I'm just curious as to why?

                  Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                  In the long run, I don't trust Cashman to assemble the right pieces and parts, regardless of what the checkbook budget is. And, despite being a Yankee fan for over a half Century, I don't want a team assembled based solely on the team's ability to outspend others.
                  This probably best summarizes where I am. I'm fine with the Yankees spending as much as anyone. Don't get me wrong, the early 2000s were fun, but saying the Yankees have to spend that much more than the #2 or I won't be happy just makes it seem like I only want to play the game if I can use a cheat code.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    They should live in the 250-300M range year after year. They Yankees should be using their financial might to sign shorter term higher wage contracts. I get you lose out on the players who want that 10yr contract, but there is so much gain from lower year contract even if a premium has to be paid.
                    NYYFans FBBL: Babe's Blasts

                    Routinely wishing bad mojo on the Bruins.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think any discussion about what a fan thinks the payroll should be is qualified as a win for the owners.

                      We shouldn’t give a crap about payroll. The sport needs to figure out how to share profits equitably not only between the owners and players, but also between the franchises.

                      Until that day arrives, then and only then should we begin to care about how much it should cost for the team to win.
                      “Nobody teaches life anything.” - Gabriel García Márquez

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by sd. View Post


                        I'm curious. These all seem to be saying the same thing, which (to me) is "They are where they should be" but with a "They have the wrong GM" thrown on the end of it. However, none of you voted that way so I'm just curious as to why?

                        This probably best summarizes where I am. I'm fine with the Yankees spending as much as anyone. Don't get me wrong, the early 2000s were fun, but saying the Yankees have to spend that much more than the #2 or I won't be happy just makes it seem like I only want to play the game if I can use a cheat code.
                        I can only speak for myself, but I'm not saying "they are where they should be." I'm saying their challenges are more fundamental than the payroll, and that it's hard to tell where the payroll should be given how poorly they use the resources they have now. If they could consistently win World Series' with a $75 million payroll, I wouldn't care.

                        @spotrac
                        2021 #MLB Playoff Teams (cash payroll rank) #Dodgers (1, $267M) #Yankees (2, $203M) #Astros (4, $192M) #RedSox (6, $182M) #Cardinals (9, $168M) #Giants (10, $161M) #Braves (12, $147M) #WhiteSox (15, $141M) #Brewers (19, $97M) #Rays (26, $70M)
                        I look at this and think, sure, they can be where the Dodgers are, or higher. But I'm not convinced that increasing their payroll is going to fix all their problems, or even be the area that would lead to the greatest improvement.



                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ruthianblast View Post
                          They should live in the 250-300M range year after year. They Yankees should be using their financial might to sign shorter term higher wage contracts. I get you lose out on the players who want that 10yr contract, but there is so much gain from lower year contract even if a premium has to be paid.
                          I almost said this in my post. They are very poor at leveraging their competitive advantages. Use money to better scout and develop; do real analytics; blow people out of the water on shorter, higher AAV contracts. The 10 year contracts are a vicious cycle; not a long term winning strategy. Players are most productive in their mid-late 20s - I understand not wanting to pay them till they're 40. If that means the payroll is $250 million, or higher, fine - but it's not the most important factor at this point.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by YFIB View Post
                            I look at this and think, sure, they can be where the Dodgers are, or higher. But I'm not convinced that increasing their payroll is going to fix all their problems, or even be the area that would lead to the greatest improvement.
                            They were where the Dodger were in 2020 ($267M for the Dodger in 2021 vs $258M for the Yankees in 2020). However, remember that in 2020, the Dodger were under the tax.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by YFIB View Post

                              I almost said this in my post. They are very poor at leveraging their competitive advantages. Use money to better scout and develop; do real analytics; blow people out of the water on shorter, higher AAV contracts. The 10 year contracts are a vicious cycle; not a long term winning strategy. Players are most productive in their mid-late 20s - I understand not wanting to pay them till they're 40. If that means the payroll is $250 million, or higher, fine - but it's not the most important factor at this point.
                              I've made a few posts (here and reddit) talking about the analytics team. To me, which obviously means nothing to the Yankess, they are getting overly bogged down in the result set rather than the variables. It's a common issue; success based on the inputs = go all in. The reality is always much different and competing models must always be considered. I'll take the movie version of Moneyball as an example where it's portrayed as getting on base is the most valuable outcome. Obviously we know that's not true. The most valuable outcome is scoring a run, having a runner on base increases that outcome in certain scenarios, but is significantly less valuable in others. With pitching it is even more important and I would argue harder to analyze than hitting (the ball is thrown outcome is observed vs the ball has not been thrown).
                              NYYFans FBBL: Babe's Blasts

                              Routinely wishing bad mojo on the Bruins.

                              Comment

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