Covid-19

[JL25and3]

If the expectation for a voter to have an ID card is decried as racist, how can the expectation for someone to wear a mask be acceptable?

Now......I wear a mask at work, and when I pick up food, or go to the grocery store, and I greatly appreciate other people who do likewise. [That mask does far more to protect other people than it does to protect you.] But "mandatory" has been linked to "racist," with regard to voter ID. How is this expectation different?

Because they’re completely different situations, with nothing in common except the word “mandatory?”

[Yankee Tripper]

Re: Covid-19

If the expectation for a voter to have an ID card is decried as racist, how can the expectation for someone to wear a mask be acceptable?

Now......I wear a mask at work, and when I pick up food, or go to the grocery store, and I greatly appreciate other people who do likewise. [That mask does far more to protect other people than it does to protect you.] But "mandatory" has been linked to "racist," with regard to voter ID. How is this expectation different?

Well for one you won't die if you don't have ID.

You know I have to wear pants, a shirt, and shoes to get in most places too, that's not considered racist as far as I know.

I know there are people against mandatory seat belt laws, but you know they are a thing and they save lives. Can't recall them being called racist either.

[Yankee Tripper]

Re: Covid-19

Because they’re completely different situations, with nothing in common except the word “mandatory?”

Maynerd loves some apples to giraffes comparisons.

[Texsahara]

Because they’re completely different situations, with nothing in common except the word “mandatory?”

So having to travel miles by foot and public transportation and spend money you don't have on an ID is not the same as pulling your t-shirt up over your face?

[Maynerd]

Re: Covid-19

Maynerd loves some apples to giraffes comparisons.

Sigh.

Maynerd likes consistency.

I have massive issues with the very idea that expecting a voter to prove who they are is considered racist. But people let that contention go by without contesting it. And, if getting a government-provided ID card is somehow unfair to certain segments of the population, I don't see how getting an inexpensive face mask is not similarly unfair.

The ID card is free. The face mask is not. Why do you hate poor people?

[Maynerd]

Re: Covid-19

Because they’re completely different situations, with nothing in common except the word “mandatory?”

One involves the requirements some people think should be in place to participate in certain aspects of our society, and the other involves the requirements some people should be in place to participate in any aspect of our society.

Wow. You're right. Nothing in common there.

[Texsahara]

Sigh.

Maynerd likes consistency.

I have massive issues with the very idea that expecting a voter to prove who they are is considered racist. But people let that contention go by without contesting it. And, if getting a government-provided ID card is somehow unfair to certain segments of the population, I don't see how getting an inexpensive face mask is not similarly unfair.

The ID card is free. The face mask is not. Why do you hate poor people?

ID is not free. There is a cost for the ID itself in many states, plus missed work to go to the DMV, cost of transportation, etc. Why do you hate poor people?

[theDurk]

Re: Covid-19

ID is not free. There is a cost for the ID itself in many states, plus missed work to go to the DMV, cost of transportation, etc. Why do you hate poor people?

Now, in Brazil, both a national ID card and a Voter ID card are mandatory, as is voting in every election. While the left would howl at the mandatory national and voter ID, the right would scream at universal mandatory voting. It would end them forever, absent bizarre accidents of history.

Some Brazilians are forced to travel hours down jungle rivers in man-powered boats to reach a voting post. But the left wants those votes.

The US is one of the few countries that has no required national ID card.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...identity_cards

[JL25and3]

One involves the requirements some people think should be in place to participate in certain aspects of our society, and the other involves the requirements some people should be in place to participate in any aspect of our society.

Wow. You're right. Nothing in common there.

Basically, that’s just a longer way of saying that they both use the word "mandatory." Not all "certain aspects of our society" are equivalent, so your statement really doesn’t add anything. Voting is the most fundamental right in a republic. There needs to be a very good reason to deny someone's right to vote.

Wearing masks addresses a real problem: an infectious disease. Voter ID is a solution without a problem.

Unless the problem is that the wrong people are voting legally. Thats what it addresses. Why is it racist? Because there’s a very long history of unnecessary voter restrictions in this country, all racist in origin and intent. This, along with various other voting restrictions, will disproportionately affect the rights of minorities to vote. After 150 years of deliberately racist restrictions, and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act by an appallingly bad SCOTUS decision, it’s not reasonable to think that "disparate effect" just happened by accident.

[Texsahara]

Now, in Brazil, both a national ID card and a Voter ID card are mandatory, as is voting in every election. While the left would howl at the mandatory national and voter ID, the right would scream at universal mandatory voting. It would end them forever, absent bizarre accidents of history.

Some Brazilians are forced to travel hours down jungle rivers in man-powered boats to reach a voting post. But the left wants those votes.

The US is one of the few countries that has no required national ID card.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...identity_cards

That is unfortunate for those people. The right to vote should not create a burden. Like the US, Brazil needs to do better.

[Maynerd]

Re: Covid-19

ID is not free. There is a cost for the ID itself in many states, plus missed work to go to the DMV, cost of transportation, etc.

So, how do we justify making facemasks mandatory? Isn't that requirement inconveniencing the same people as would be inconvenienced (whether by time, cost, or transportation) by getting an ID card?

The same standard of evidence should be used for a sexual assault allegation, whether it's against a Trump appointee or a Democratic presumptive nominee.

The same standard of expectation should be used for participation in society, whether it's an ID card to participate in the voting booth or a mask to buy groceries.

If we make masks mandatory, do we also pass some sort of legislation to do so correctly? I won't tell you how many times I've seen people touch the fabric to adjust them with their bare hands, or have the mask over their mouth but not their nose, or (my favorite) pulling it aside to cough or sneeze. At the end of the day, do you toss it on the coffee table with your car keys? If you do, what were you hoping to achieve by wearing it?

My point is that it's reasonable to encourage folks to wear masks, but making it mandatory won't provide the safety net so many people think it will.

[Yankee Tripper]

Re: Covid-19

So, how do we justify making facemasks mandatory? Isn't that requirement inconveniencing the same people as would be inconvenienced (whether by time, cost, or transportation) by getting an ID card?

One is a public health issue, the other is not.

The same standard of evidence should be used for a sexual assault allegation, whether it's against a Trump appointee or a Democratic presumptive nominee.

This relates to masks, how?

The same standard of expectation should be used for participation in society, whether it's an ID card to participate in the voting booth or a mask to buy groceries.

Again one is a public health issue and one is not.

If we make masks mandatory, do we also pass some sort of legislation to do so correctly? I won't tell you how many times I've seen people touch the fabric to adjust them with their bare hands, or have the mask over their mouth but not their nose, or (my favorite) pulling it aside to cough or sneeze. At the end of the day, do you toss it on the coffee table with your car keys? If you do, what were you hoping to achieve by wearing it?

Again. Minutia easily overcome.

My point is that it's reasonable to encourage folks to wear masks, but making it mandatory won't provide the safety net so many people think it will.

It's reasonable to pass laws in the interest of public safety, we do it all the time.

[Maynerd]

Re: Covid-19

This relates to masks, how?

It doesn't. It relates to the massive inconsistencies we apply depending on our political positions.

Again. Minutia easily overcome.

Strongly disagree. If the wear of a mask is a public health issue, then the improper wear of the mask is hardly minutia. And how do we easily overcome people's sloppy and improper use of the masks. Allow people to do it wrong (and the WILL do it wrong) and the mandatory mask is nothing more than a panacea.

It's reasonable to pass laws in the interest of public safety, we do it all the time.

It's reasonable to know who's voting, but that's decried as racist. I'm just trying to understand why mandating public safety measures is not.

Telling people they HAVE to do something to participate in society can be construed as racist. But not if it benefits YOU. Then it's OK. Is that it?

[JL25and3]

It's reasonable to know who's voting, but that's decried as racist.

Why is it reasonable to restrict voting without a reason?

Why would it not be racist when it disproportionately affects minorities and when all irrelevant voting restrictions have always been racist?

[Yankee Tripper]

Re: Covid-19

FWIW, I'm fine with requiring IDs to vote, but then they also need to be free and easily obtainable. But I also understand the arguments against mandating IDs to vote as it disproportiantly restricts poor voters.

Your arguments about people wearing masks wrong is simply another red herring. Yes there will be people who wear them wrong, they will be a small percentage.