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    #3706
    Re: Covid-19

    Originally posted by philleotardo View Post
    By-product of giving small states overrepresentation.
    Governmental inefficiency has nothing to do with large or small states. It's the by-product of entirely too much power shifting to the federal government, and its bloated bureaucracy, rather than a certain degree of autonomy for the states.

    "Wyoming and North Dakota each have two Senators, so that's why the government isn't good at getting anything done except spend money." Seriously?

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

    Comment

      #3707
      Re: Covid-19

      Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
      Governmental inefficiency has nothing to do with large or small states. It's the by-product of entirely too much power shifting to the federal government, and its bloated bureaucracy, rather than a certain degree of autonomy for the states.

      "Wyoming and North Dakota each have two Senators, so that's why the government isn't good at getting anything done except spend money." Seriously?
      I'm sorry, but Wyoming and North Dakota having the same amount of Senators as California and New York is crazy. Our Constitution is badly in need of some serious revisions that are far too long overdue as we're headed to a total population of 350M people.
      NYYFANS: See you on the other side!

      Comment

        #3708
        Re: Covid-19

        Originally posted by philleotardo View Post
        By-product of giving small states overrepresentation.
        There are 12 red states that combined have the same population as California. Yet the 40 billion in those 12 states get 24 senators (all red) and the 40 million in California get 2 senators. America OVERWHELMINGLY is a blue country but because of the dumb way we form a government the Republicans are ALWAYS at the advantage

        Comment

          #3709
          Re: Covid-19

          Originally posted by Yankees1962 View Post
          I'm sorry, but Wyoming and North Dakota having the same amount of Senators as California and New York is crazy. Our Constitution is badly in need of some serious revisions that are far too long overdue as we're headed to a total population of 350M people.
          Simple. Just put a lock on the door of the Senate, and send all the Senators home. [I said this was the next logical step when everyone railed against the Electoral College, and was assured this wasn't the case, by the way.]

          Of course, we would no longer be the UNITED STATES of America, because we'd be a single autonomous mass controlled by the centers of population. Because New Yorkers and Californians are better equipped to address problems in Iowa than Iowans. Because...population.

          But, this is irrelevant to my post. I said that governmental inefficiencies are NOT the result of differences in representation. And, predictably enough, all the responses are talking about population/representation ratios.

          "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
          - President Barack Obama

          Comment

            #3710
            Re: Covid-19

            Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
            Simple. Just put a lock on the door of the Senate, and send all the Senators home. [I said this was the next logical step when everyone railed against the Electoral College, and was assured this wasn't the case, by the way.]

            Of course, we would no longer be the UNITED STATES of America, because we'd be a single autonomous mass controlled by the centers of population. Because New Yorkers and Californians are better equipped to address problems in Iowa than Iowans. Because...population.

            But, this is irrelevant to my post. I said that governmental inefficiencies are NOT the result of differences in representation. And, predictably enough, all the responses are talking about population/representation ratios.
            You repeat the bolded ad nauseum, as if continuing to say it will somehow make it true. It has been debunked dozens of times, in multiple ways, by many different people here.
            "Our work continues, the fight goes on, and the big dreams never die." -- Elizabeth Warren

            Comment

              #3711
              Re: Covid-19

              Originally posted by jlw1980 View Post
              You repeat the bolded ad nauseum, as if continuing to say it will somehow make it true. It has been debunked dozens of times, in multiple ways, by many different people here.
              Well it worked for Trump for 35% of the population

              Comment

                #3712
                Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                Governmental inefficiency has nothing to do with large or small states. It's the by-product of entirely too much power shifting to the federal government, and its bloated bureaucracy, rather than a certain degree of autonomy for the states.

                "Wyoming and North Dakota each have two Senators, so that's why the government isn't good at getting anything done except spend money." Seriously?
                Yes. We give them billions more than they pay in. What do you think those Senators lobby for?

                Comment

                  #3713
                  Re: Covid-19

                  Originally posted by jlw1980 View Post
                  You repeat the bolded ad nauseum, as if continuing to say it will somehow make it true. It has been debunked dozens of times, in multiple ways, by many different people here.
                  It hasn't been debunked at all.

                  Our Republic was formed based on a coalition of sovereign states. A bicameral legislation was created to provide one house to provide representation to the people, and the other house to provide representation for the states. In fact, until the 17th Amendment was ratified, the States themselves provided that representation to the Senate, rather than directly from the voters from those states.

                  You're advocating the elimination of any representation by the states. You're advocating we have one national election for the presidency, rather than 50 state-level elections. You're advocating an elimination of any authority by the states, because some are more populous than others. At that point, what purpose do state boundaries serve? What purpose does the Senate serve? If there's no authority, no distinguishing characteristic of being an Idahoan or a Virginian, why bother? You're proposing making the individual states irrelevant.

                  If your goal is absolute, rigid, equal representation by population, you cannot have a Senate. If you're going to give North Dakota two Senators, and then give California 50, what function does the Senate have, other than being another House of Representatives? Are we still going to be a federation of individual states? How? What authority are you leaving for those states? Not the Electoral College. Not the Senate. What's left?

                  Debunk away.

                  "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                  - President Barack Obama

                  Comment

                    #3714
                    Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                    It hasn't been debunked at all.

                    Our Republic was formed based on a coalition of sovereign states. A bicameral legislation was created to provide one house to provide representation to the people, and the other house to provide representation for the states. In fact, until the 17th Amendment was ratified, the States themselves provided that representation to the Senate, rather than directly from the voters from those states.

                    You're advocating the elimination of any representation by the states. You're advocating we have one national election for the presidency, rather than 50 state-level elections. You're advocating an elimination of any authority by the states, because some are more populous than others. At that point, what purpose do state boundaries serve? What purpose does the Senate serve? If there's no authority, no distinguishing characteristic of being an Idahoan or a Virginian, why bother? You're proposing making the individual states irrelevant.

                    If your goal is absolute, rigid, equal representation by population, you cannot have a Senate. If you're going to give North Dakota two Senators, and then give California 50, what function does the Senate have, other than being another House of Representatives? Are we still going to be a federation of individual states? How? What authority are you leaving for those states? Not the Electoral College. Not the Senate. What's left?

                    Debunk away.
                    It’s your turn to debunk. The numbers have been shown in these political threads. Every red state except Texas takes back more than they pay in. If your actual concern is the inefficiency buzzword you keep turning to, you’re being shown several examples of inefficiency.
                    Forget a sale- just give the Dakotas to Canada and we’d save billions

                    It’s your turn to make a better argument than “because gubment.” Show something other than buzziness like “bureaucracy”. Show where the other inefficiencies are coming from.

                    It is factually inefficient to throw billions to middle America for water wasting industries or to Alabama and Mississippi for.......who the hell knows

                    Comment

                      #3715
                      Re: Covid-19

                      Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                      It hasn't been debunked at all.

                      Our Republic was formed based on a coalition of sovereign states. A bicameral legislation was created to provide one house to provide representation to the people, and the other house to provide representation for the states. In fact, until the 17th Amendment was ratified, the States themselves provided that representation to the Senate, rather than directly from the voters from those states.

                      You're advocating the elimination of any representation by the states. You're advocating we have one national election for the presidency, rather than 50 state-level elections. You're advocating an elimination of any authority by the states, because some are more populous than others. At that point, what purpose do state boundaries serve? What purpose does the Senate serve? If there's no authority, no distinguishing characteristic of being an Idahoan or a Virginian, why bother? You're proposing making the individual states irrelevant.

                      If your goal is absolute, rigid, equal representation by population, you cannot have a Senate. If you're going to give North Dakota two Senators, and then give California 50, what function does the Senate have, other than being another House of Representatives? Are we still going to be a federation of individual states? How? What authority are you leaving for those states? Not the Electoral College. Not the Senate. What's left?

                      Debunk away.
                      The USA is one of is not the very first representative governments in the world and yet we are only 1 of 2 counties in the world to use an electoral college system to elect our leader. You’d think if was a good model more democracies would have adopted it.
                      Baseball is life;
                      the rest is just details.

                      Comment

                        #3716
                        Re: Covid-19

                        Originally posted by philleotardo View Post
                        It’s your turn to make a better argument than “because gubment.” Show something other than buzziness like “bureaucracy”. Show where the other inefficiencies are coming from.
                        https://fee.org/articles/most-outrag...ernment-waste/
                        https://www.assetpanda.com/resource-...pending-waste/
                        https://www.shmoop.com/study-guides/...vernment-waste
                        https://gosar.house.gov/issues/issue/?IssueID=15179
                        https://republicans-oversight.house....cation-report/
                        https://fee.org/articles/the-inheren...t-bureaucracy/
                        https://www.cagw.org/thewastewatcher...ratic-dinosaur
                        https://www.cato.org/commentary/why-...nt-so-wasteful

                        Al Gore went to great lengths to re-invent the government during the Clinton Administration...decades ago. None of it 'took.'

                        "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                        - President Barack Obama

                        Comment

                          #3717
                          Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                          https://fee.org/articles/most-outrag...ernment-waste/
                          https://www.assetpanda.com/resource-...pending-waste/
                          https://www.shmoop.com/study-guides/...vernment-waste
                          https://gosar.house.gov/issues/issue/?IssueID=15179
                          https://republicans-oversight.house....cation-report/
                          https://fee.org/articles/the-inheren...t-bureaucracy/
                          https://www.cagw.org/thewastewatcher...ratic-dinosaur
                          https://www.cato.org/commentary/why-...nt-so-wasteful

                          Al Gore went to great lengths to re-invent the government during the Clinton Administration...decades ago. None of it 'took.'
                          Of course right wing blogs say “It’s this thing, not that thing.” It’s politically savvy to make government the enemy. A better argument for you to make is “Do they back it up?” Throw away Paul Gosar right away, he’s as much the problem as anyone.

                          https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/3428980002

                          And I all I got from fee was “Look at these items that cost a couple million.” Hell, just having the Dakotas costs us billions. Sounds much more inefficient.

                          The feds spend because someone locally is asking them to.

                          Comment

                            #3718
                            Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                            It hasn't been debunked at all.

                            Our Republic was formed based on a coalition of sovereign states. A bicameral legislation was created to provide one house to provide representation to the people, and the other house to provide representation for the states. In fact, until the 17th Amendment was ratified, the States themselves provided that representation to the Senate, rather than directly from the voters from those states.

                            You're advocating the elimination of any representation by the states. You're advocating we have one national election for the presidency, rather than 50 state-level elections. You're advocating an elimination of any authority by the states, because some are more populous than others. At that point, what purpose do state boundaries serve? What purpose does the Senate serve? If there's no authority, no distinguishing characteristic of being an Idahoan or a Virginian, why bother? You're proposing making the individual states irrelevant.

                            If your goal is absolute, rigid, equal representation by population, you cannot have a Senate. If you're going to give North Dakota two Senators, and then give California 50, what function does the Senate have, other than being another House of Representatives? Are we still going to be a federation of individual states? How? What authority are you leaving for those states? Not the Electoral College. Not the Senate. What's left?

                            Debunk away.
                            I'm good with the states becoming administrative divisions with reduced authority, much as counties are. The Civil War ended up with the Union rather than the state as the basic unit of government for We The People.
                            Russian warship, go **** yourself

                            Comment

                              #3719
                              Re: Covid-19

                              Originally posted by JL25and3 View Post
                              I'm good with the states becoming administrative divisions with reduced authority, much as counties are. The Civil War ended up with the Union rather than the state as the basic unit of government for We The People.
                              No limitations of powers? No Tenth Amendment?

                              The Civil War didn't disband the Senate, or re-write Article 1 or the Bill of Rights. Should we now just make up the rules as we go, without a defining document? Legislation via Executive Order rather than a process for passing laws?

                              That.......wouldn't be good.

                              "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                              - President Barack Obama

                              Comment

                                #3720
                                Re: Covid-19

                                Originally posted by philleotardo View Post
                                Of course right wing blogs say “It’s this thing, not that thing.” It’s politically savvy to make government the enemy. A better argument for you to make is “Do they back it up?”
                                Let me get this all straight. You asked me to provide examples of government inefficiency. I did. A bunch of them. And now, you're dismissing that list because "it's politically savvy to make the government the enemy." So, the reality is, you want me to provide a list of things the government does wastefully without using any resources that point out government wastefulness? That's going to be a challenge.

                                Originally posted by philleotardo
                                The feds spend because someone locally is asking them to.
                                They're allowed to say 'no.'

                                "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                                - President Barack Obama

                                Comment

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