Covid-19

[Texsahara]

Exactly. Using the FDA's logic, we should be put oral contraceptives on 'pause.' But, that's not gonna happen.I fear that will be a LOT of others, and they'll use the Johnson and Johnson 'pause' as their excuse to avoid ANY shot. If they were just hurting themselves, I'd be fine with it, but their decisions have a societal impact.

The comp to contraceptives is bad. They are a typical type of clot treated with anticoagulants. If you treat the JnJ clots the same you may kill your patient. It's a very different and rare type of clotting. I think part of the point in the pause is to make sure they understand the signs and treatment and have the opportunity to convey it to healthcare professionals. If it only lasts a few days I don't think it will have much of an affect. But JnJ only makes up 5% of the vaccines anyway so they should still meet the goals.

And in a weird twist, Trump may have unintentionally helped. He issued a statement that the pause was stupid and the vaccine is fine. His goal was obviously to crap on the Biden admin but the end result is telling his followers that it's okay to get it.

[H.Kokubo]

Blood clots are a "better" side effect possible in that atleast it is very straight forward and easy to find out if you unfortunately get them due to the vaccine, and the results will show up within two weeks so no need to worry for years. I have a friend in her 20s who is dead set on not getting a vaccine for atleast a few years because she read some story about the vaccine possibly making a female infertile, and she would rather risk her life than potentially living long without being capable of having her own children.

If she was a Bill Gates chip conspiracist or simply a Trump supporter I would not bother to try to convince her, but infertility is something that will take years to prove and it can't be proven otherwise until atleast a year passes and statistics can be taken.

[Maynerd]

The comp to contraceptives is bad.

I didn't know they were different types of clots. Thanks. HOWEVER, the likelihood of getting a blood clot from the vaccine remains significantly lower than the likelihood of Covid killing you. We're hyper-focused on the risk of the vaccine, and ignoring the risk the vaccine eliminates.

But JnJ only makes up 5% of the vaccines anyway so they should still meet the goals.

That would be true if the population was lined up for a shot....any shot. But, entirely too much of the population is sitting back and waiting for an excuse to avoid the shot, and we just gave it to them. They'll use the "Ohmigod! Blood clots! Mayhem! End of days!" excuse for any vaccine, not just the J&J.

And in a weird twist, Trump may have unintentionally helped. He issued a statement that the pause was stupid and the vaccine is fine. His goal was obviously to crap on the Biden admin but the end result is telling his followers that it's okay to get it.

One can hope. Trump needs to take credit for Operation Warp Speed (whether deserved or not) to convince his minions that it's a Republican vaccine, and not a Biden vaccine.

So painfully stupid.

[Texsahara]

I didn't know they were different types of clots. Thanks. HOWEVER, the likelihood of getting a blood clot from the vaccine remains significantly lower than the likelihood of Covid killing you. We're hyper-focused on the risk of the vaccine, and ignoring the risk the vaccine eliminates. That would be true if the population was lined up for a shot....any shot. But, entirely too much of the population is sitting back and waiting for an excuse to avoid the shot, and we just gave it to them. They'll use the "Ohmigod! Blood clots! Mayhem! End of days!" excuse for any vaccine, not just the J&J.

Maybe but I think they would have done that with or without the pause. The clots happened. You can't hide it. And like any medication, possible side effects are part of informed consent. Like all the crazy things the commercials tell you could happen if you take the drug they are advertising. People that are looking for an excuse will find one.

[YFIB]

The comp to contraceptives is bad. They are a typical type of clot treated with anticoagulants. If you treat the JnJ clots the same you may kill your patient. It's a very different and rare type of clotting. I think part of the point in the pause is to make sure they understand the signs and treatment and have the opportunity to convey it to healthcare professionals. If it only lasts a few days I don't think it will have much of an affect. But JnJ only makes up 5% of the vaccines anyway so they should still meet the goals.

And in a weird twist, Trump may have unintentionally helped. He issued a statement that the pause was stupid and the vaccine is fine. His goal was obviously to crap on the Biden admin but the end result is telling his followers that it's okay to get it.

The comparison to contraceptives is about the frequency. If the actual risk was 100 times more frequent than what has been seen with the J&J vaccine, it's still several times less common than oral contraceptives.

To say it won't have an impact assumes that people pay close attention - which we know isn't the case. Look at the fertility concern a couple posts down from yours.

[JL25and3]

The comparison to contraceptives is about the frequency. If the actual risk was 100 times more frequent than what has been seen with the J&J vaccine, it's still several times less common than oral contraceptives.

To say it won't have an impact assumes that people pay close attention - which we know isn't the case. Look at the fertility concern a couple posts down from yours.

Well, again, another big difference between oral contraceptives and the vaccine is that the contraceptives went through a more stringent acceptance process rather than an emergency use authorization.

There comes a point where it’s useless to try to figure out how people with no damn sense are going to interpret this.

[Texsahara]

The comparison to contraceptives is about the frequency. If the actual risk was 100 times more frequent than what has been seen with the J&J vaccine, it's still several times less common than oral contraceptives.

To say it won't have an impact assumes that people pay close attention - which we know isn't the case. Look at the fertility concern a couple posts down from yours.

I disagree. It's not just comparing frequency. It's referencing clots in an irresponsible manner. Unnecessary and possibly harmful.

Looking at the fertility comment proves my point imo. People that don't want the vaccine will find an excuse not to get it.

And I'm not saying the pause was the correct or incorrect response. I just don't believe it will make much of a difference assuming it's brief.

[YFIB]

Well, again, another big difference between oral contraceptives and the vaccine is that the contraceptives went through a more stringent acceptance process rather than an emergency use authorization.

There comes a point where it’s useless to try to figure out how people with no damn sense are going to interpret this.

It's a fair point about the emergency use authorization, but given how rare the side effect seems to be, and the trial data, it's highly likely we'd be in the same place even with a traditional review process.

[RhodyYanksFan]

I think the time to herd immunity was just lengthened considerably. Whether it was the correct call or not, a bunch of folks on the fence just moved to the no way category

Especially since the J&J one was the one that's easiest to get to rural areas as it doesn't require deep freeze or follow up boosters.

[Maynerd]

There comes a point where it’s useless to try to figure out how people with no damn sense are going to interpret this.

I think 'people with no damn sense' are the root cause of many of our problems as a society. Racism. Guns. Drugs. Partisan politics. Debt. Virus spread and herd immunity. I suspect figuring out how that much-too-large subset will interpret things (as frustrating as that might be) is the key to resolving a lot of issues.

[jlw1980]

It's a fair point about the emergency use authorization, but given how rare the side effect seems to be, and the trial data, it's highly likely we'd be in the same place even with a traditional review process.

AGREE with this.

[JL25and3]

I think 'people with no damn sense' are the root cause of many of our problems as a society. Racism. Guns. Drugs. Partisan politics. Debt. Virus spread and herd immunity. I suspect figuring out how that much-too-large subset will interpret things (as frustrating as that might be) is the key to resolving a lot of issues.

The problem with trying to figure out how they’ll interpret things is that they have no damn sense.

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

My home infusion nurse, who definitely has anti-vax sentiments, was going on this morning about how the people who got a J&J vaccine probably feel really stupid right now, and how she's glad she got COVID last year because she has antibodies and doesn't need to be "experimented" on. I don't push back because I have to deal with her one week a month, but...sigh.

[Texsahara]

My home infusion nurse, who definitely has anti-vax sentiments, was going on this morning about how the people who got a J&J vaccine probably feel really stupid right now, and how she's glad she got COVID last year because she has antibodies and doesn't need to be "experimented" on. I don't push back because I have to deal with her one week a month, but...sigh.

I would not push back with her either but I would speak to the company she works for. She is way out of line.

[YankeePride1967]

I can’t even debate with fhese morons anymore.