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    #4216
    Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...M:genTN:FY21


    Seems like if you're exposed to a bunch of unvaccinated yahoos you might still consider wearing a mask indoors when around them. YMMV


    also from the CDC site
    yup

    Comment

      #4217
      I am still requiring masks where I work because I don't want to be the vaccine police and do not feel that I can trust unvaccinated people to be truthful and forthcoming about their status. I don't think continuing to mandate masks is about science as much as human nature. I do trust the science. I suspect Nancy feels similar.

      Comment

        #4218
        Originally posted by Texsahara View Post
        I am still requiring masks where I work because I don't want to be the vaccine police and do not feel that I can trust unvaccinated people to be truthful and forthcoming about their status. I don't think continuing to mandate masks is about science as much as human nature. I do trust the science. I suspect Nancy feels similar.
        I agree. I've been fully vaccinated for weeks now, but still wear a mask at work or in public places.

        My point through all this has been the reaction that "you have to believe the science" is pretty weak. The science changes, as we learn more. Belittling someone who doesn't immediately embrace the science-du-jour is unfair. Yesterday's 'science' may have supported their position. Particularly with regard to mask wear, the science assumes you're doing it correctly, meaning it's covering your nose and mouth, that you don't touch the mask with your bare hands, that you don't toss it with your car keys on the coffee table when you get home. My faith that consistent mask-wearers are doing it correctly has been, and remains, very low. And if you're touching it, wearing it wrong, failing to treat it like a biohazard.......it becomes a false sense of security. You're wearing a mask at that point, but not paying attention to the science.

        And when the CDC says that vaccinated people no longer need masks in most situations, of course people have the right to take more stringent precautions, but isn't that also NOT believing the science? When the science says to wear a mask, and you belittle people who question that guidance, shouldn't you also belittle people who disregard the science when it says you can ditch the mask? Or, do we get to choose which science we decide to believe?

        As to trusting people to be truthful and forthcoming about their vaccination status? You would be very foolish to do so.

        I'm honestly ready to abandon mask wear entirely, as a society. If anti-vaxers subsequently contract the virus, I will no longer feel sorry for them. But until society reaches that step, I will continue to abide by the current guidelines, because that's what responsible people do. I'm just not going to selectively pick which science I will demand other people pay attention to.

        "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
        - President Barack Obama

        Comment

          #4219
          Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
          I agree. I've been fully vaccinated for weeks now, but still wear a mask at work or in public places.

          My point through all this has been the reaction that "you have to believe the science" is pretty weak. The science changes, as we learn more. Belittling someone who doesn't immediately embrace the science-du-jour is unfair. Yesterday's 'science' may have supported their position. Particularly with regard to mask wear, the science assumes you're doing it correctly, meaning it's covering your nose and mouth, that you don't touch the mask with your bare hands, that you don't toss it with your car keys on the coffee table when you get home. My faith that consistent mask-wearers are doing it correctly has been, and remains, very low. And if you're touching it, wearing it wrong, failing to treat it like a biohazard.......it becomes a false sense of security. You're wearing a mask at that point, but not paying attention to the science.

          And when the CDC says that vaccinated people no longer need masks in most situations, of course people have the right to take more stringent precautions, but isn't that also NOT believing the science? When the science says to wear a mask, and you belittle people who question that guidance, shouldn't you also belittle people who disregard the science when it says you can ditch the mask? Or, do we get to choose which science we decide to believe?

          As to trusting people to be truthful and forthcoming about their vaccination status? You would be very foolish to do so.

          I'm honestly ready to abandon mask wear entirely, as a society. If anti-vaxers subsequently contract the virus, I will no longer feel sorry for them. But until society reaches that step, I will continue to abide by the current guidelines, because that's what responsible people do. I'm just not going to selectively pick which science I will demand other people pay attention to.
          To be clear, the science tells you that masks are more about protecting others than yourself. The virus is spread through respiration, and a mask is a crude tool to cover your mouth and nose and block droplets carrying the virus from being breathed in by others. If you cover both your mouth and your nose, and wear a reasonable mask, you're going to accomplish your goal.

          The question as to when it is appropriate to stop wearing a mask veers from pure science into public health and a discussion of what risk is acceptable to take as a society. At some point in the not too distant future, it will be time to ditch the masks; it would be nice if there were some goals/standards articulated around that so that it doesn't seem quite so random.

          Comment

            #4220
            I am not sure with other serious airborne illnesses out there (flu) if wearing masks in public isn’t a good idea period

            Comment

              #4221
              Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
              I agree. I've been fully vaccinated for weeks now, but still wear a mask at work or in public places.

              My point through all this has been the reaction that "you have to believe the science" is pretty weak. The science changes, as we learn more. Belittling someone who doesn't immediately embrace the science-du-jour is unfair. Yesterday's 'science' may have supported their position. Particularly with regard to mask wear, the science assumes you're doing it correctly, meaning it's covering your nose and mouth, that you don't touch the mask with your bare hands, that you don't toss it with your car keys on the coffee table when you get home. My faith that consistent mask-wearers are doing it correctly has been, and remains, very low. And if you're touching it, wearing it wrong, failing to treat it like a biohazard.......it becomes a false sense of security. You're wearing a mask at that point, but not paying attention to the science.

              And when the CDC says that vaccinated people no longer need masks in most situations, of course people have the right to take more stringent precautions, but isn't that also NOT believing the science? When the science says to wear a mask, and you belittle people who question that guidance, shouldn't you also belittle people who disregard the science when it says you can ditch the mask? Or, do we get to choose which science we decide to believe?

              As to trusting people to be truthful and forthcoming about their vaccination status? You would be very foolish to do so.

              I'm honestly ready to abandon mask wear entirely, as a society. If anti-vaxers subsequently contract the virus, I will no longer feel sorry for them. But until society reaches that step, I will continue to abide by the current guidelines, because that's what responsible people do. I'm just not going to selectively pick which science I will demand other people pay attention to.
              Science always changes as we learn more. Science is always science du jour. if people have knowledgeable, reasoned objections to accepting it, that might be one thing. That’s not what’s ever gone on in this case.
              Russian warship, go **** yourself

              Comment

                #4222
                If republicans actually did understand science I wonder how many tens of thousands fewer people would have died?

                Comment

                  #4223
                  Originally posted by YFIB View Post
                  it would be nice if there were some goals/standards articulated around that so that it doesn't seem quite so random.
                  I've been on this soapbox for over a year. If you're going to lock down society, there need to be defined exit criteria from the start. The science failed here.


                  "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                  - President Barack Obama

                  Comment

                    #4224
                    Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                    I've been on this soapbox for over a year. If you're going to lock down society, there need to be defined exit criteria from the start. The science failed here.
                    I don't think it was possible early on. The science didn't fail, they simply did not know enough about the virus and were dealing with just getting it under control. As they have learned more about how it spreads, how to treat, and then developed a vaccine, it makes sense to have more specific standards. If they had defined an exit criteria from the start, they would have had to change it repeatedly as they learned more about the virus and you would have been just as frustrated.

                    Comment

                      #4225
                      Originally posted by Maynerd View Post
                      I've been on this soapbox for over a year. If you're going to lock down society, there need to be defined exit criteria from the start. The science failed here.
                      Maybe this is just a semantic difference, but that's not a failure of science, but how we make decisions and communicate. Science can explain the virus, tell us how to reduce spread, and quantify the risks. But it's up to us to interpret those facts and determine how much risk we are willing to take. The question of where you want to put those exit criteria are a lot more than a scientific question.

                      Comment

                        #4226
                        The Science did not fail us. The lack of leadership by the "COVID is the latest liberal Hoax" wing of the Republican Party failed us.
                        http://vimel.ru/e6748

                        Comment

                          #4227
                          Originally posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
                          The Science did not fail us. The lack of leadership by the "COVID is the latest liberal Hoax" wing of the Republican Party failed us.
                          This. The science evolves and corrects like it often does - the earth was flat until it was round. The messaging is a different thing entirely.

                          Comment

                            #4228
                            Originally posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
                            The Science did not fail us. The lack of leadership by the "COVID is the latest liberal Hoax" wing of the Republican Party failed us.
                            Absolutely.

                            These are not mutually exclusive. The lack of leadership is (in my opinion) an undeniable failure. The shutdown of society without a definable exit criteria is, too.


                            "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                            - President Barack Obama

                            Comment

                              #4229
                              Originally posted by Texsahara View Post

                              This. The science evolves and corrects like it often does - the earth was flat until it was round.
                              Yet we hold 18th Century men to 21st Century standards and values. Odd.


                              "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
                              - President Barack Obama

                              Comment

                                #4230
                                E16_wSzWEAEIUqm?format=jpg&name=small.jpg

                                The top 20 states + DC that have done the best at getting shots in arms all voted for Biden. And 15 of the 16 states that have the fewest shots in arms per capita voted for Trump. (The one outlier: Georgia.)

                                It's so amazing that Republicans continue to get people to vote for them while showing over and over literally how little they care about whether their constituents live or die.

                                Comment

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