Covid-19

[jlw1980]

You still need to be boosted. You need something, anyway.

I done been boosted, Boomer.

[YankeePride1967]

My first two were Pfizer. Wondering if I should stick with that or go with Moderna (though Moderna is only half a shot).

[False1]

It's not your faux intellectual curiosity that is offensive. It's your defense of anti-vaxxers and no matter how much you want to contort yourself to deny it, that is exactly what you're doing.

There is nothing ambiguous about this. They are operating in a way completely consistent with the scientific process. Something you don't seem to have much of an understanding of. Read more.

Nice. Faux intellectual curiosity. I can only be a fraud if I have questions that you don't. Read more. If I lack information, it can't be because that information isn't published. You love posting links, yet I've noticed an absence of them in this particular line of discussion. What are you reading that I'm not?

I think it's the height of egotism to accuse someone that actually ALIGNS with the broader point (people should get vaccinated) but simply questions the basis of wishing death and damnation on roughly half of their neighbors without any scientific evidence to back that ugliness. Or one third, for any Captain Literals out there.

I'm not defending anyone for being anti-vaxx (for this vaccine or any that precede it). But if you're going to accuse people of being murderers of anyone but themselves because they didn't get the vaccine and and condemn their souls to eternal damnation, you might want to have some facts and data to support that.

I want that data to be true. I want these vaccines to not only reduce symptoms and risks but also reduce reinfection and transmission. I think it says a lot about anyone that would have these dark thoughts with no facts behind their claim whatsoever. If those facts exist, it's negligence to the degree that it would have to be considered intentional that they have not been communicated to the world.

[Texsahara]

Nice. Faux intellectual curiosity. I can only be a fraud if I have questions that you don't. Read more. If I lack information, it can't be because that information isn't published. You love posting links, yet I've noticed an absence of them in this particular line of discussion. What are you reading that I'm not?

I think it's the height of egotism to accuse someone that actually ALIGNS with the broader point (people should get vaccinated) but simply questions the basis of wishing death and damnation on roughly half of their neighbors without any scientific evidence to back that ugliness. Or one third, for any Captain Literals out there.

I'm not defending anyone for being anti-vaxx (for this vaccine or any that precede it). But if you're going to accuse people of being murderers of anyone but themselves because they didn't get the vaccine and and condemn their souls to eternal damnation, you might want to have some facts and data to support that.

I want that data to be true. I want these vaccines to not only reduce symptoms and risks but also reduce reinfection and transmission. I think it says a lot about anyone that would have these dark thoughts with no facts behind their claim whatsoever. If those facts exist, it's negligence to the degree that it would have to be considered intentional that they have not been communicated to the world.

More arrogant condescending bs. Hard pass.

[False1]

More arrogant condescending bs. Hard pass.

The irony. It runs deep.

I've always tried to communicate my respect for your intellect and that you do your homework on topics to inform your opinion. Bummer that can't be reciprocated. C'est la vie.

[YFIB]

It's not impossible in the least.

Maybe I'm getting my data from the wrong source, but I'd think cdc.gov would be a current and trustworthy place to go for metrics. As of right now, they are showing 57.2% of US citizens fully vaccinated.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...min-rate-total

Do you have a source that you feel is more current and accurate than the CDC?

EDIT: Oh, I see. You're referring to adults specifically. That doesn't seem to be the right baseline though in this discussion, unless you're saying people under 18 cannot be infected and transmit the disease.

I don't see anyone "castigating" 9 year olds or "wishing eternal damnation on them" because they aren't vaccinated. That's why I think the ~ 69% number is more relevant.

[False1]

I don't see anyone "castigating" 9 year olds or "wishing eternal damnation on them" because they aren't vaccinated. That's why I think the ~ 69% number is more relevant.

Ok, cool that's progress. Now only 31% of our neighbors need to burn in hell rather than 47%.

[Yankee Tripper]

Ok, cool that's progress. Now only 31% of our neighbors need to burn in hell rather than 47%.

There is a difference between not having sympathy for some one and wanting them to burn in hell.

for example if someone decides to drink and drive they might make it home safe, great they got lucky.
if they wrap their car around a tree and die, I don’t have much sympathy for them
if they drive across 3 lanes of traffic and kill a family coming home, they can burn in hell.

for those who are too young to get the vaccine, or medically ineligible to get the vaccine I have a ton of sympathy for those folks, but it’s largely for those folks the rest of us need to be vaccinated

[False1]

There is a difference between not having sympathy for some one and wanting them to burn in hell.

for example if someone decides to drink and drive they might make it home safe, great they got lucky.
if they wrap their car around a tree and die, I don’t have much sympathy for them
if they drive across 3 lanes of traffic and kill a family coming home, they can burn in hell.

for those who are too young to get the vaccine, or medically ineligible to get the vaccine I have a ton of sympathy for those folks, but it’s largely for those folks the rest of us need to be vaccinated

This is getting somewhat circular, and it appears all I'm doing is aggravating folks, which isn't my intent.

1. The OP that I responded to not only said they didn't have sympathy for unvaxxed folks that die, but said that unvaxxed folks can rot in hell because they're basically murderers on the premise that the unvaxxed get infected at a higher rate and transmit at a higher rate than the vaxxed.
2. I have a hard time mustering up the hate to wish things like that - literally or even figuratively - on an individual let alone large swaths of people... but the objection I have specifically in this case is that while there is evidence that those that vaccinate have far better personal protection from hospitalization and death, there is no evidence at this time that those that vaccinate acquire or transmit the disease at a lower rate.
3. Therefore, I think that hatred is highly misguided and dangerous. I hope and pray that data does emerge that shows these vaccines reduce infection/transmission. I'm very concerned that it hasn't yet, and I'm surprised that people let sloganeering like "this is a disease of the unvaccinated" go unchallenged when the data does not support that right now. While I think that anyone that can get the vaccine should for their own personal protection, I think this language is intentionally divisive, not founded in empirical evidence and it manifests in hot takes like the OP's. I will change my opinion on this the very second that science proves it.
4. There are no carveouts for those that have natural immunity, and/or that are taking other significant measures to reduce the odds of catching or conveying the disease. There are not considerations for those that have vaxxed but are routinely partaking in high risk activities that could cause breakthrough infection and transmission. Just "unvaxxed = hell."
5. Not surprisingly, I get the "read more" type responses and when I ask for the material that others have read I get "hard pass." Or bickering over 47% or 31% as if that changes the discussion.

I don't get why one can't be pro-vaxx and also ask for more information or reject hateful language at the same time.

[Yankee Tripper]

I think there is a difference between folks who chose not to be vaccinated, and those who spout antivaxx doctrine. Fore example I think the guy who used to play Another One Bites the dust while reading lists of people who died of AIDS then spotted antivaxx BS on his radio show who later dies of COViD can absolutely rot in hell.

[False1]

I think there is a difference between folks who chose not to be vaccinated, and those who spout antivaxx doctrine. Fore example I think the guy who used to play Another One Bites the dust while reading lists of people who died of AIDS then spotted antivaxx BS on his radio show who later dies of COViD can absolutely rot in hell.

I understand your point of view. I can understand lacking the same degree of sympathy when someone passes away that has not taken readily available measures like one of the vaccines to reduce that very risk, as compared to someone who tries to do the right things and suffers regardless.

The bar I've set for caution in my own life is very high. My wife has an autoimmune disease, receives regular chemo treatments and the odds of her survival if she is infected are extraordinarily low. Since March of 2020 I haven't attended a non-family social gathering of more than 7 people, which was once. Our family welcomed our first grandson recently, we couldn't be at the hospital for the big day and I met him for the first time with a mask on. I mentioned my uncle and aunt in NY died from Covid very early in the pandemic. We couldn't attend the funeral and we also couldn't even attend the recent celebration of my uncle's life due to concerns with traveling and exposure. We have had groceries and needs delivered almost without exception for the better part of 18 months. Trust me, I get the frustration of looking at our upside down world and wanting everyone to do everything they can to reduce the spread. That's why I'm so eager to see that these vaccines do just that. I'm desperate for the sense of comfort that knowledge would provide, and even a small sense of freedom and normalcy that might allow my family to return to. Would be great to leave our house now and then, to travel, to not always be afraid. I am equally concerned about a false sense of security that could be encouraging people to act in ways that contribute to spread. We need the information.

That example you reference is just an example of a terrible person. The world is full of them, both in the populations of vaccinated and unvaccinated people. I don't wish death or damnation on this guy or anyone else. I let whatever high power handles such things sort all that out.

[YankeePride1967]

I will tell you who I feel bad for, the few vaccinated people who are dying from a virus that should be largely eradicated if not for the stupidity and ignorance of a select few. At this point there is zero excuse for hesitancy. The vaccine has been out for 10 months now, much beyond the six months for unknown side effects to show. Problem is instead of trusting the same doctor who has treated them for years they get their vaccine advice from Facebook and Fox News. Do I wish them dead, no and you are clueless if you think people are. Doesn’t mean I feel bad for them though. Would anyone feel bad for me if I got in a Lion cage and started throwing rocks at it?

[Texsahara]

This is getting somewhat circular, and it appears all I'm doing is aggravating folks, which isn't my intent.

1. The OP that I responded to not only said they didn't have sympathy for unvaxxed folks that die, but said that unvaxxed folks can rot in hell because they're basically murderers on the premise that the unvaxxed get infected at a higher rate and transmit at a higher rate than the vaxxed. Yes. You have made it very clear that your main issue is other posters having thoughts you don't like. Boo hoo.
2. I have a hard time mustering up the hate to wish things like that - literally or even figuratively - on an individual let alone large swaths of people... but the objection I have specifically in this case is that while there is evidence that those that vaccinate have far better personal protection from hospitalization and death, there is no evidence at this time that those that vaccinate acquire or transmit the disease at a lower rate. Except the very CDC links you have posted suggest otherwise https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ed-people.html
3. Therefore, I think that hatred is highly misguided and dangerous. I hope and pray that data does emerge that shows these vaccines reduce infection/transmission. I'm very concerned that it hasn't yet, and I'm surprised that people let sloganeering like "this is a disease of the unvaccinated" go unchallenged when the data does not support that right now. While I think that anyone that can get the vaccine should for their own personal protection, I think this language is intentionally divisive, not founded in empirical evidence and it manifests in hot takes like the OP's. I will change my opinion on this the very second that science proves it.A potentially fatal public health crisis and pandemic has to be dealt with as the science evolves. Waiting for absolute proof of every single hypothesis and belief is a mistake and much more dangerous and misguided than people's thoughts. Saying this is a disease of the unvaccinated may be hyperbole but the data fully supports that vaccination is the path out.
4. There are no carveouts for those that have natural immunity, and/or that are taking other significant measures to reduce the odds of catching or conveying the disease. There are not considerations for those that have vaxxed but are routinely partaking in high risk activities that could cause breakthrough infection and transmission. Just "unvaxxed = hell." I don't know why some internet rando's opinion gets you so worked up but whatever. Unvaccinated people stop us from getting the disease under control and clog up the health system. Unvaccinated people with no medical exemption do not deserve a carve out.
5. Not surprisingly, I get the "read more" type responses and when I ask for the material that others have read I get "hard pass." Or bickering over 47% or 31% as if that changes the discussion. You absolutely need to read more. Your understanding of the science being discussed is weak.

I don't get why one can't be pro-vaxx and also ask for more information or reject hateful language at the same time.

No one is stopping you. Now you're just whining.

Edit: one more thing. Developing such an effective vaccine so quickly was amazing and key to getting past this. The bs excuses for not getting vaccinated and the defending of those excuses is appalling and could close the window as the virus mutates. Yes, I hold the unvaccinated accountable and so should you.

[ajra21]

I will tell you who I feel bad for, the few vaccinated people who are dying from a virus that should be largely eradicated if. It for the stupidity and ignorance of a select few. At this point there is zero excuse for hesitancy. The virus has been out for 10 months now, much beyond the six months for unknown side effects to show. Problem is instead of trusting the same doctor who has treated them for years they get their vaccine advice from Facebook and Fox News. Do I wish them dead, no and you are clueless if you think people are. Doesn’t mean I feel bad for them though. Would anyone feel bad for me if I got in a Lion cage and started throwing rocks at it?

Well said.

[jlw1980]

No one is stopping you. Now you're just whining.

Edit: one more thing. Developing such an effective vaccine so quickly was amazing and key to getting past this. The bs excuses for not getting vaccinated and the defending of those excuses is appalling and could close the window as the virus mutates. Yes, I hold the unvaccinated accountable and so should you.

You're my favorite.