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    Originally posted by HfxBob View Post

    Who'd have thought it?
    Well it's just nice to see people and the media shift from "This is a massive conspiracy theory" to "glad they are looking into it."

    A top editor at the New York Times instructed Times staffers not to investigate the origins of COVID-19, two Times employees confirmed today.

    ‘In early 2020,’ a veteran Times employee tells me, ‘I suggested to a senior editor at the paper that we investigate the origins of COVID-19. I was told it was dangerous to run a piece about the origins of the coronavirus. There was resistance to running anything that could suggest that [COVID-19 was manmade or had leaked accidentally from a lab].’

    The global pandemic was then in its early stages. Donald Trump was running for reelection and calling SARS-CoV-2 the ‘Chinese virus’. His secretary of state Mike Pompeo had told ABC’s This Week in May 2020 that he had seen ‘significant’ and ‘enormous evidence’ of the virus originating in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. A few weeks later, Sir Richard Dearlove, the ex-head of Britain’s MI6 spy service agreed: ‘I subscribe to the theory…that it’s an engineered escapee from the Wuhan Institute [of Virology].’

    Yet the Times, according to two well-placed sources, refused to investigate the biggest story of our time. Instead, senior editors are alleged to have suppressed efforts to probe the virus’s origins, and the Times led the charge to dismiss any questioning of the WHO’s now-discredited line as conspiracist or even ‘racist’.

    ‘It was considered a conspiracy theory,’ confirms a second Times insider who was in a senior position on a different section at the time, and also proposed an investigation. ‘It was untouchable everywhere. The fact that Trump embraced it, of course, also made it a no-go.’

    ‘The idea was considered dangerous,’ my first source agreed. They suggest that the Times’s editors weren’t motivated by domestic politics in an election year, or even by a hatred of Donald Trump that ran so deep as to dispose them to trust the WHO and the Chinese government over the Trump administration.
    https://thespectator.com/topic/new-y...igins-inquiry/

    Comment


      Originally posted by ClownPickle View Post

      Well it's just nice to see people and the media shift from "This is a massive conspiracy theory" to "glad they are looking into it."



      https://thespectator.com/topic/new-y...igins-inquiry/
      I don’t think anyone here took a position one way or the other. Glad they are looking into it.
      Russian warship, go **** yourself

      Comment


        Originally posted by ClownPickle View Post

        Well it's just nice to see people and the media shift from "This is a massive conspiracy theory" to "glad they are looking into it."
        And it's also a relief to know the poor old pangolin is finally off the hook.
        Polite Red Sox fan

        Comment


          Originally posted by JL25and3 View Post

          I don’t think anyone here took a position one way or the other. Glad they are looking into it.
          Right. But for the people that did cry massive conspiracy, maybe if so many on the right weren't constantly spreading massive conspiracy theories, that would not have been the case. MTG, of the "Election Integrity Caucus", continuing to spread disproven election theories in Congress just yesterday for example.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Texsahara View Post

            Right. But for the people that did cry massive conspiracy, maybe if so many on the right weren't constantly spreading massive conspiracy theories, that would not have been the case. MTG, of the "Election Integrity Caucus", continuing to spread disproven election theories in Congress just yesterday for example.
            Regardless of MTG's nonsense or some of the other stuff, the lab leak possibility was never a conspiracy theory. It was Occam's Razor. And conspiracy theories aren't exclusive to people on the right, although they clearly seem to be trying to win that contest.

            Comment


              Originally posted by HfxBob View Post

              And it's also a relief to know the poor old pangolin is finally off the hook.
              For sure. It was always funny when you saw liberals call the lab leak theory racist and xenophobic. However, the theory they were running with was the primitive Chinese were eating bats and pangolins in unsanitary dirty markets. Oh the irony!

              One of the many casualties of calling everything racist. You often lose the search for facts in the muck.

              Comment


                Originally posted by False1 View Post
                Regardless of MTG's nonsense or some of the other stuff, the lab leak possibility was never a conspiracy theory. It was Occam's Razor. And conspiracy theories aren't exclusive to people on the right, although they clearly seem to be trying to win that contest.
                Not sure what your point is. It may not be exclusive to the right but they are the champs right now and they have earned the criticism and rejection they get. That's all I'm saying . Hard disagree that lab leak was Occam's razor and it's still far from conclusive. The scientific community is not particularly supportive of the FBI's conclusion. Of course the FBI not presenting any new evidence supporting that conclusion may have something to do with that. I would think they'd correct that soon.

                It's funny though how all the same people that have been so dismissive of FBI theories and conclusions for years now are suddenly so willing to accept this at face value with zero evidence being presented to support it.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Texsahara View Post

                  Not sure what your point is. It may not be exclusive to the right but they are the champs right now and they have earned the criticism and rejection they get. That's all I'm saying . Hard disagree that lab leak was Occam's razor and it's still far from conclusive. The scientific community is not particularly supportive of the FBI's conclusion. Of course the FBI not presenting any new evidence supporting that conclusion may have something to do with that. I would think they'd correct that soon.

                  It's funny though how all the same people that have been so dismissive of FBI theories and conclusions for years now are suddenly so willing to accept this at face value with zero evidence being presented to support it.
                  Tex, you do realize that this story actually jumped back into the news when the US Department of Energy became the second US agency along with the FBI to conclude that the most likely origin was a lab leak?

                  It was the Department of Energy's report that mentioned having new evidence that led to this conclusion.
                  Polite Red Sox fan

                  Comment


                    As for the Occam's Razor premise, what is that based on?

                    1) The Wuhan Institute of Virology is 10-15 miles from where the first outbreak was reported.
                    2) The Wuhan Institute of Virology was conducting gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses at the time - research on how to make such viruses even more powerful.
                    3) The Wuhan Institute of Virology had numerous concerns raised about its safety procedures in recent years.
                    4) The Chinese Government has stonewalled scientific investigation into the virus's origin from the beginning.
                    Polite Red Sox fan

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by HfxBob View Post

                      Tex, you do realize that this story actually jumped back into the news when the US Department of Energy became the second US agency along with the FBI to conclude that the most likely origin was a lab leak?
                      Of course I do. You do realize that the DOE report was made with "low confidence" and that no new evidence has been produced? And that there are still interagency disagreements on it within our own intelligence community while the scientific community still overwhelmingly points to a natural origin, right?

                      I have no opinion on the source of the virus. I have not been shown anything to convince me either way. I'm just surprised (not really) that so many people are so quick to accept a theory with no new supporting evidence being presented. It feels like confirmation bias to me.

                      As I've said, right now I have doubts that we will ever know. Don't forget that it took nearly 30 years to confirm the source of ebola and over 25 for AIDS. I want them to get it right.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by HfxBob View Post
                        As for the Occam's Razor premise, what is that based on?

                        1) The Wuhan Institute of Virology is 40-50 miles from where the first outbreak was reported.
                        2) The Wuhan Institute of Virology was conducting gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses at the time - research on how to make such viruses even more powerful.
                        3) The Wuhan Institute of Virology had numerous concerns raised about its safety procedures in recent years.
                        4) The Chinese Government has stonewalled scientific investigation into the virus's origin from the beginning.
                        As a point of clarification, the FBI report does not sight the Wuhan Institute of Virology as the source of the lab leak. Their belief now is that it was leaked from to the Chinese Centre for Disease Control in Wuhan.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Texsahara View Post

                          Of course I do. You do realize that the DOE report was made with "low confidence" and that no new evidence has been produced? And that there are still interagency disagreements on it within our own intelligence community while the scientific community still overwhelmingly points to a natural origin, right?
                          I very strongly question that statement.

                          The agencies who conclude it was most likely a natural origin are also making that conclusion with "low confidence".
                          Polite Red Sox fan

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by HfxBob View Post

                            I very strongly question that statement.

                            The agencies who conclude it was most likely a natural origin are also making that conclusion with "low confidence".
                            I wasn't clear. Not overwhelming evidence that it was natural. An overwhelming majority in the scientific community, not just US agencies, still believe it was more likely natural. The confidence degree is a separate thing.

                            Comment


                              To paraphrase Bill Maher, I can’t prove this but I know it’s true: Those who believe that Covid was leaked (maliciously or not )from a lab tend also tend to believe covid was a hoax and no big deal.
                              Last edited by YankeeFan1421; 03-04-23, 07:07 PM.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
                                To paraphrase Bill Maher, I can’t prove this but I know it’s true: Those who believe that Covid was leaked maliciously or not from a lab tend also tend to believe covid was a hoax and no big deal.
                                I would say the overwhelming majority of those who believe in the lab origin theory believe it was an accident. "Leak" in this case implies accident.
                                Polite Red Sox fan

                                Comment

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