Covid-19

[Yankee Tripper]

Re: Covid-19

Ha. Yeah. It's just that these people that are fleeing the city to their summer or weekend place in the burbs are causing a lot of problems. Sure they should be allowed. It's not illegal. But I don't think the takes here that it's all just okey-dokey and why would anyone have a problem with it are very well thought out.

They are exchanging one set of problems for a different set of problems.


In the first they are staying in a high density area with proportionally higher COVID-19 infection rates for a lower density area that may have unanticipated supply problems due to more residents than expected.


They also might be COVID-19 vectors which is why False1 & I both think they should be allowed to do this but should self quarintine. The problem as JD points out is those people coming aren't self quarintining.

[Texsahara]

We're talking about less than ideal situations across the country here.

Yes, I honestly do not see the problem with a family of four putting strain on seasonal community resources by temporarily relocating to a sparsely populated area if the alternative is being packed into an apartment with thousands of people in roughly an equivalent footprint. They are less at risk, and they are creating a lower risk level to others.

I empathize with the plight of permanent residents in those areas, but I'd say I'd rather have the Governor of NJ work with local leadership to address the need for more local resources at the beach than have the Governor of NY continue to talk about the breathtakingly painful trends they are experiencing in NYC.

Also, I know it was really just an opportunity to say "eat the rich", but my cousins that temporarily relocated from the NYC to a Jersey beach home are not rich at all. They are fortunate to have rich friends though that are not using the property. Also, not everyone that lives permanently in these beach towns is poor.

Who said this?

This wasn't the thrust of the point.

The point is that these suburban communities are taking on more risk and dealing with a huge amount of crap from entitled New Yorkers that have fled the city. I have to deal with them every day. They are adding mountains of work to the already helllish yet essential job I do. It's absolutely their right but it doesn't mean it doesn't suck. I would not expect you to understand if you've never been on this side. I'm sure your cousins are lovely though.

[Texsahara]

Was that a response to me? Not yours obviously, but the one that this was a response to? If so, I'm amused that said person hasn't figured out that I've had him on ignore for months. :lol:

Living rent free inside his head?

[Yankee Tripper]

Re: Covid-19

The point is that these suburban communities are taking on more risk and dealing with a huge amount of crap from entitled New Yorkers that have fled the city. I have to deal with them every day. They are adding mountains of work to the already helllish yet essential job I do. It's absolutely their right but it doesn't mean it doesn't suck. I would not expect you to understand if you've never been on this side. I'm sure your cousins are lovely though.

I think those are the same cousins who False1 recently lost an Aunt and Uncle to COVID-19. I can fully understand their desire to leave an area with high death rate from the disease.

[False1]

Re: Covid-19

But it isn't one family of 4, it's everyone. There is little parking, they all came. And they had to close the boardwalk and the tennis courts and the parks and now all the people are walking along the streets. Some social distancing, but at times and in spots it's hard to.

It was a good idea by the Gov. Not many listened.

Sorry for the dig at the rich. I should have left that part out. It's a dig at people.

I totally understand your concern. I'm not trying to imply that it doesn't create a burden on locals. I'm saying in this discussion we have two less than ideal scenarios.

One is to stay in an area ravaged by COVID and where it is literally impossible to mitigate effectively. The other is to temporarily relocate to an area with far less probability of COVID infection and a much greater ability to mitigate via social distancing.

My only point this whole time was to say that the latter is the lesser of two evils, and the problems it causes (overload on resources, select idiots that won't social distance, etc) are hard challenges but not impossible to overcome. People living in high rise apartment buildings absolutely cannot socially distance. Hopping on the elevator to take their dog out for a walk or to make a quick dash for essentials puts them in a petri dish that probably had hundreds of other potential givers/getters of the disease in 10 square foot area within a span of a few hours.

I have a summer home in a much less densely populated area than where I live. I have an autoimmune compromised wife. I work from home. I have not yet migrated, in part for the reasons you are dealing with now where you are. If this area turns into a hot bed though, I won't hesitate. I'll bring up whatever resources I can and will socially distance but the priority has to be reducing people's risk of being exposed and exposing others at the macro level, particularly for high risk groups.

[Texsahara]

Re: Covid-19

None of this would be an issue if people were responsible. They are not. The problems they are creating are real and people will die because of them.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buz...al-small-towns

[False1]

Re: Covid-19

The point is that these suburban communities are taking on more risk and dealing with a huge amount of crap from entitled New Yorkers that have fled the city. I have to deal with them every day. They are adding mountains of work to the already helllish yet essential job I do. It's absolutely their right but it doesn't mean it doesn't suck. I would not expect you to understand if you've never been on this side. I'm sure your cousins are lovely though.

My cousins are lovely. They have a 2 year old and just introduced their newborn daughter to their father a week before he died from COVID. They're a great little family, and I sleep better at night knowing they are in a place where they can exponentially reduce their risks of catching/spreading this disease.

You wouldn't expect me to understand, because internet. I do though. I spend about half my time (and eventually plan to retire) in a mountain town of <5k permanent residents that more than quadruples its population during peak weeks/months. The area is absolutely prepared for it in July. Not so much in March. I get it.

I don't think entire groups of people should be judged for trying to save their lives because a few are idiots and because they make your job harder.

[Texsahara]

My cousins are lovely. They have a 2 year old and just introduced their newborn daughter to their father a week before he died from COVID. They're a great little family, and I sleep better at night knowing they are in a place where they can exponentially reduce their risks of catching/spreading this disease.

You wouldn't expect me to understand, because internet. I do though. I spend about half my time (and eventually plan to retire) in a mountain town of <5k permanent residents that more than quadruples its population during peak weeks/months. The area is absolutely prepared for it in July. Not so much in March. I get it.

I don't think entire groups of people should be judged for trying to save their lives because a few are idiots and because they make your job harder.

I was sincere about your cousins. I'm sure they are lovely. But it's not a few people that are idiots and it's not that they make my job harder. It's that they make it more dangerous. They are trying to save their lives at the expense of others. I will not empathize.

[False1]

Re: Covid-19

I was sincere about your cousins. I'm sure they are lovely. But it's not a few people that are idiots and it's not that they make my job harder. It's that they make it more dangerous. They are trying to save their lives at the expense of others. I will not empathize.

Your generalization is outrageous.

Responsible people who perhaps caught the virus, self-quarantine in an area with less risk of reinfection, and who effectively socially distance are saving lives. Yes, there is a balloon squeezing effect of someone migrating from a current high risk area to a current low risk area. At the macro level to society, it's a positive IF people are smart.

The problem is dumb people - locals and imports. Focus the energy on containing them.

[Archer1979]

Re: Covid-19

I totally understand your concern. I'm not trying to imply that it doesn't create a burden on locals. I'm saying in this discussion we have two less than ideal scenarios.

One is to stay in an area ravaged by COVID and where it is literally impossible to mitigate effectively. The other is to temporarily relocate to an area with far less probability of COVID infection and a much greater ability to mitigate via social distancing.

My only point this whole time was to say that the latter is the lesser of two evils, and the problems it causes (overload on resources, select idiots that won't social distance, etc) are hard challenges but not impossible to overcome. People living in high rise apartment buildings absolutely cannot socially distance. Hopping on the elevator to take their dog out for a walk or to make a quick dash for essentials puts them in a petri dish that probably had hundreds of other potential givers/getters of the disease in 10 square foot area within a span of a few hours.

I have a summer home in a much less densely populated area than where I live. I have an autoimmune compromised wife. I work from home. I have not yet migrated, in part for the reasons you are dealing with now where you are. If this area turns into a hot bed though, I won't hesitate. I'll bring up whatever resources I can and will socially distance but the priority has to be reducing people's risk of being exposed and exposing others at the macro level, particularly for high risk groups.

I'm somewhat in the same boat, except its me that is immune compromised (Type II diabetic). We have a house on the Cape. Very secluded. Self-quarantining is easy as long as the food holds out. And, all five of us are now either working from home or taking classes from home. We could have just as easily done this at the Cape, but we decided not to.

First factor was we didn't know to what extent that Mass. was getting shut down and we didn't want to get stuck someplace that we couldn't get out of.

Second was wifi. Not that we've ever had an issue, but the infrastructure at the Cape is a little more fragile that WMAss. Both my wife and I have critical jobs right now for the companies we work for so being out of commission for any length of time is a dealbreaker.

Third was resources. We're smart enough to know that the Cape is off-season right now. Off-season for the Cape means less of everything... food and supplies being the foremost. Grocery stores have enough for the full-timers but are not any where close to being stocked or have the employees available for in-season demand. Restaurants are mostly closed anyway with a few providing take-out. But, I'm getting notices that even some of those have shut down.

Fourth was possible medical emergencies. All our doctors are in WMass. We had to spend a week in early March at the Cape as there were some repair issues that desperately required attention. The plan was simply that if anyone started experiencing symptoms, we were on the road home ASAP. There is a lot of xenophobia running around the Cape right now and we were fairly certain that full-timers were at the front of the line at the local hospital.

As Texashara aptly put it, people need to behave responsibly. This is a serious thing going on. Not a time for a holiday. Yeah, it's better to walk a beach than a farm road, but a farm road is what I've got right now so I'm good.

We're fairly fortunate. The area that we live in has not been particularly hard-hit by the actual virus. My wife and I both have folks that work for us who have it and have loved ones who have it. Not easy. I try not to judge too much in this situation as I haven't walked a mile in someone else's shoes, but if I had an option to relocate temporarily to protect my family, I probably would. Just need to not jeopardize anyone else.

[Texsahara]

Re: Covid-19

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...to-coronavirus

Rural communities with vacation homes are experiencing outbreaks of the coronavirus at a faster pace than rural areas without seasonal housing, according to a new study, suggesting residents of big cities who flee to the countryside are bringing the virus with them.

The survey found that in rural counties where more than 25 percent of the housing units are inhabited only part time, the average number of COVID-19 cases per capita is more than twice as high as the number of cases in counties where a greater percentage of the population lives there year-round.

Rural communities with high levels of vacation homes even have higher rates of infection than urban counties.

[Texsahara]

Re: Covid-19

Your generalization is outrageous.

Responsible people who perhaps caught the virus, self-quarantine in an area with less risk of reinfection, and who effectively socially distance are saving lives. Yes, there is a balloon squeezing effect of someone migrating from a current high risk area to a current low risk area. At the macro level to society, it's a positive IF people are smart.

The problem is dumb people - locals and imports. Focus the energy on containing them.

Why on earth would we approach this from the pov that people doing this are going to be smart about it?

[False1]

Re: Covid-19

Why on earth would we approach this from the pov that people doing this are going to be smart about it?

You don't. You prepare for the specific people that are going to be dumb about it. And those same people are gonna be dumb whether they're in Manhattan or Avalon or Queens or Cape Cod. And let's not act like locals to any specific area - urban or rural - are all being smart about this.

If people are running amok in an area, hopefully their local municipality has the ability and the stones to order shelter-in-place.

I get the concerns - completely. I don't get the urge want to prevent good people that would benefit from lower population density from being able to do so. Not everyone trying to protect themselves is a rich, entitled, society-be-damned a-hole.

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

Re: Covid-19

You don't. You prepare for the specific people that are going to be dumb about it. And those same people are gonna be dumb whether they're in Manhattan or Avalon or Queens or Cape Cod. And let's not act like locals to any specific area - urban or rural - are all being smart about this.

If people are running amok in an area, hopefully their local municipality has the ability and the stones to order shelter-in-place.

In shore towns, the police capacity is greatly reduced between Labor Day and Memorial Day, as they often rely on temporary staff in the summer. If the population unexpectedly swells in the winter or early spring they won't even be able to enforce whatever weak regulation they put in place.

I get the concerns - completely. I don't get the urge want to prevent good people that would benefit from lower population density from being able to do so. Not everyone trying to protect themselves is a rich, entitled, society-be-damned a-hole.

If rich New Yorkers are willing to start paying NJ income taxes in exchange for safe haven, I'm all for it.

[Texsahara]

Re: Covid-19

You don't. You prepare for the specific people that are going to be dumb about it. And those same people are gonna be dumb whether they're in Manhattan or Avalon or Queens or Cape Cod. And let's not act like locals to any specific area - urban or rural - are all being smart about this.

If people are running amok in an area, hopefully their local municipality has the ability and the stones to order shelter-in-place.

I get the concerns - completely. I don't get the urge want to prevent good people that would benefit from lower population density from being able to do so. Not everyone trying to protect themselves is a rich, entitled, society-be-damned a-hole.

They may not think so but how many people that relocate from a hot spot are quarantining for 14 days? Not shelter in place, go to the grocery with a mask stuff but actual quarantine? Unless they have tested positive or are showing symptoms I bet that number is incredibly low. Yet they now believe that it may be the most contagious before symptoms develop. Anyone that has been in a hot spot needs to stay there or go into a full quarantine for two weeks. You know that's not what's happening. Or maybe you just have more faith in humanity than I do.