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**False1** · 10-24-21, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by bucky View Post

See the above post it was a mistake. I posted his post season numbers. We don't agree.

That's cool, I'm not trying to change your opinion really but more just point out that the way you're explaining your rationale for your conclusion seems curious.

**ClownPickle** · 10-24-21, 04:11 PM

That Gardner - Cole story is amazing. That prankster! Extend him another 2 decades. Everyone loves him.

**JLJ81** · 10-24-21, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Strategerie View Post

Related to starters:
1. How many AL starters would you rather have than Cole for 2022? (Ignoring pay)

2. How many AL starters , who are #2 or below in their rotation, would you rather have than our #2 to #5 guys? (Ignoring pay)

3. Who else has a guy like German as the #6 starter?

1.Sorry, but ignoring the money when the YANKEES with the most revenue in baseball aren't willing to break the luxury tax every year is unfair. Cole and his contract on a team with a 300 million dollar payroll is much different than a team that was penny pinching at the deadline to stay under the tax and still has several holes. There are a few Number 1 pitchers in the AL I'd rather have without considering money like Eovaldi, Ohtani, and Ray. Then McCullers is borderline because of his injuries, but would absolutely take him if money is considered since he makes 19 million a year less the next 5 seasons. Also funny how you leave out the national league that has a handful of pitchers people would take over Cole. I thought the goal was winning the World Series and that requires beating an NL team as well......

2.There are also a pile of number 2-5 pitchers in the AL I'd rather have than some of our 2-5 pitchers. Framber Valdez, Luis Garcia, Frankie Montas, Sean Manea, Lucas Giolito, Jose Urquidy, Carlos Rodon, Chris Flexen, Jose Berrios, Cal Quantril, Aaron Civale, Alek Manoah, Dylan Cease

3. Who else has a number 6 like German? How about someone better? Cristian Javier. Was 3rd in rookie of the year last year as a starter mostly, and moved out of the Astros rotation because they had 6-7 starters this year. Pitched great in the playoffs so far. Career ERA is a full run lower than German and he's probably a better person considering he hasn't smacked around his significant other.

**bucky** · 10-24-21, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by kan_t View Post

Did you make your decision when he was the NLCS MVP and WS MVP last year if you care about the post season this much?

No. I made this decision at the end of the season. I watched post season to watch Seager. I like what I saw when we move Torres to 2nd and Ursehla to SS and want to play Volpe later this year. I wish he was playing in AFL. Seager will be our SS for 4-5 years at 20M+. With Seager we will be spending 100M+ for 5-6 players and only 1 is a SP (and probably trade Volpe). Stanton and Judge may be 50M! Then Brian trades and goes to bargain bin. I want balance on how we allocate the money - where we spend this off season.

I am saying I don't want Seager and posted his numbers but a catcher and #2.

(I think) Stanton was MVP the year before we got him. Everybody (but Art) thought it was great. (I used Art because I follow him but there were others)

Everybody here wants him, Brian wants a SS, I don't agree.

**Paul Zuvella** · 10-24-21, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by bucky View Post

This is the post season!!!! I made my decision before the 6 games, watch him thus post season because I don't see LAD that much - to see if he was a maybe - I just waited until the end to post. It was 12 games, Oct 6 -Oct 22. 48 AB with 5 BB, 9 H, 14 SO, 188 BA, 264 OBA. He got 2 HRs and 6 RBI, LHB - He is the top of the order... he will fit right in our roster. He is not going to be cheap and will want more than 5 years. NO

He is a great player, had a great career, I think LAD should sign him.

Look Brian is going to sign a SS and we have Volpe, he likes Sanchez work ethics, and Judge is the face of our team, Sevy as #2, and Boone. I will always rooted for them to win but we always do patches (SS).

Seager hasnt had a great career, hes only been healthy 50% of his time in the majors and has only put together 2 good years.

**False1** · 10-24-21, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Paul Zuvella View Post

Seager hasnt had a great career, hes only been healthy 50% of his time in the majors and has only put together 2 good years.

He's no Paul Zuvella, that's for sure.

**NelsonMuntz** · 10-24-21, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by ClownPickle View Post

That Gardner - Cole story is amazing. That prankster! Extend him another 2 decades. Everyone loves him.

Cole should have knocked his teeth out. Gardner and his .689 OPS need to retire.

**hhill** · 10-24-21, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by Strategerie View Post

Our projected rotation next year is:

Cole
Sevy
Montgomery
Cortes
Taillon

With the following as backups:

German, Clarke Schmidt, Gil, plus some prospects

That's extremely good. And our lineup is filled with hitters who should be able to OPS over 800, even before any offseason upgrades (much better than just filling in from the farm). Good bullpen too with ridiculous depth and anchored by Loaisiga and Clay Holmes.

2021 was a really bad year from both a performance perspective and a surplus value perspective (the massive underperformance plus the accumulation of service time crushed many of our players' asset values). Things still look bright for 2022 and beyond (our roster and pitching is still very good and our farm had a good year, even considering the deadline selloffs).

Nothing great about that rotation.
Sevy , health?
Monty , a 4 or 5 starter...make him throw strikes and he is very hittable
Cortes, a long reliever, doubt his work is reproducible, a 4 or 5
Taillon, health?

I dont see a 2 or 3.

**ThePinStripes** · 10-24-21, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by hhill View Post

Nothing great about that rotation.
Sevy , health?
Monty , a 4 or 5 starter...make him throw strikes and he is very hittable
Cortes, a long reliever, doubt his work is reproducible, a 4 or 5
Taillon, health?

I dont see a 2 or 3.

I don’t see a #1.

**hhill** · 10-24-21, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by ThePinStripes View Post

I don’t see a #1.

I was giving Cole the benefit of the doubt as to #1. He's had issues late this yr and has to prove himself.

**Yankee Tripper** · 10-24-21, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by hhill View Post

Nothing great about that rotation.
Sevy , health?
Monty , a 4 or 5 starter...make him throw strikes and he is very hittable
Cortes, a long reliever, doubt his work is reproducible, a 4 or 5
Taillon, health?

I dont see a 2 or 3.

If Montgomery is their 4 or 5 starter next year they probably win 105 games. he threw 157 IP of 3.89 ERA ball with a 3.69 FIP, struck out more than a batter an inning and had better than a 3:1 K:BB ratio combined with one of the better exit velocities among starting pitcher. I expect good things from Monty next year. And he’ll be another year removed from TJS

im not convinced Cortes can repeat his insane pop up rate but If that is reproducible no reason he can’t succeed.

Sevy looked good In limited action but I’m concerned about his ability to Handel a full starter work
Load next year

tailion is questionable to be ready for start Os sesson

**Strategerie** · 10-24-21, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by JLJ81 View Post

1.Sorry, but ignoring the money when the YANKEES with the most revenue in baseball aren't willing to break the luxury tax every year is unfair. Cole and his contract on a team with a 300 million dollar payroll is much different than a team that was penny pinching at the deadline to stay under the tax and still has several holes. There are a few Number 1 pitchers in the AL I'd rather have without considering money like Eovaldi, Ohtani, and Ray. Then McCullers is borderline because of his injuries, but would absolutely take him if money is considered since he makes 19 million a year less the next 5 seasons. Also funny how you leave out the national league that has a handful of pitchers people would take over Cole. I thought the goal was winning the World Series and that requires beating an NL team as well......

2.There are also a pile of number 2-5 pitchers in the AL I'd rather have than some of our 2-5 pitchers. Framber Valdez, Luis Garcia, Frankie Montas, Sean Manea, Lucas Giolito, Jose Urquidy, Carlos Rodon, Chris Flexen, Jose Berrios, Cal Quantril, Aaron Civale, Alek Manoah, Dylan Cease

3. Who else has a number 6 like German? How about someone better? Cristian Javier. Was 3rd in rookie of the year last year as a starter mostly, and moved out of the Astros rotation because they had 6-7 starters this year. Pitched great in the playoffs so far. Career ERA is a full run lower than German and he's probably a better person considering he hasn't smacked around his significant other.

I'm not saying the Yankees shouldn't be held to a higher standard due to payroll. I was just looking for the best on the field pitchers, regardless of pay. Obviously stripping out pay makes Cole look more favorable given his high pay but actually makes our 2 to 5 guys look less favorable given their low pay.

I disagree with your take on #1 pitchers and would take Cole easily over the folks you mentioned (but I appreciate you sharing your opinion).

On the 2 thru 5 guys, you bring up good names. I'd also probably add Eovaldi/Sale (whomever isn't the ace). My point wasn't that there is noone, I think even our 5th guy is reasonably in the conversation with any of them (and if we were to get any of those guys, I would think they are only projected as a marginal upgrade over Taillon/Cortes/Monty/Sevy, whomever you think of as our #5). I haven't gone thru all the names but I think you mention a bunch of White Sox and A's in there and agree that those are very good rotations as well

I can't comment on Javier but he is probably a good name to bring up. Like above, my point is that German is amongst the best 6th starters versus the absolute best.

Thanks for the thoughtful response/opinion.

**RoyWilliams** · 10-24-21, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by NelsonMuntz View Post

Cole should have knocked his teeth out. Gardner and his .689 OPS need to retire.

Why? i can understand not wanting him back but Cole was a jerk about it and then later said he was sorry. Gardner did nothing wrong.

**RoyWilliams** · 10-24-21, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by ThePinStripes View Post

I don’t see a #1.

Guy who will finish #2 in the cy young voting is not a #2?

**JLJ81** · 10-24-21, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by Strategerie View Post

I'm not saying the Yankees shouldn't be held to a higher standard due to payroll. I was just looking for the best on the field pitchers, regardless of pay. Obviously stripping out pay makes Cole look more favorable given his high pay but actually makes our 2 to 5 guys look less favorable given their low pay.

I disagree with your take on #1 pitchers and would take Cole easily over the folks you mentioned (but I appreciate you sharing your opinion).

On the 2 thru 5 guys, you bring up good names. I'd also probably add Eovaldi/Sale (whomever isn't the ace). My point wasn't that there is noone, I think even our 5th guy is reasonably in the conversation with any of them (and if we were to get any of those guys, I would think they are only projected as a marginal upgrade over Taillon/Cortes/Monty/Sevy, whomever you think of as our #5). I haven't gone thru all the names but I think you mention a bunch of White Sox and A's in there and agree that those are very good rotations as well

I can't comment on Javier but he is probably a good name to bring up. Like above, my point is that German is amongst the best 6th starters versus the absolute best.

Thanks for the thoughtful response/opinion.

Cole could change my mind if he shows he can consistently dominate without the sticky stuff. The enforcement officially started June 21st. Cole had a 4.12 ERA after June 21st.

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