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**ymike673** · 10-26-21, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post

The Yankees aren’t signing any big ticket free agents.

Not when they’re operating under a self-imposed salary cap.
They’ve already got $80 million a year committed to Stanton, Cole and DJ for the foreseeable future and still need to extend Judge. The Yankees are not going to commit $130 million a year on 5 players for the next 5 season.

Yep. But hey they made it to the 2nd WC. Big win for Cashman.

**RoyWilliams** · 10-27-21, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by ymike673 View Post

Yes. Go Braves, Beat the cheaters!

I really can't stand either team. Houston cheats and the Braves have that stupid chop and the fans chant to it drives me nuts.

**hhill** · 10-27-21, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by RoyWilliams View Post

I really can't stand either team. Houston cheats and the Braves have that stupid chop and the fans chant to it drives me nuts.

Be happy youdont have Boston in there

**Paul Zuvella** · 10-27-21, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by matt2351 View Post

He didn't scam "us." His use of performance enhancing foreign substance duped Cashman. Sounds like you might want to direct that anger towards the person whose job it is to vet these things.

Well I was hoping we signed him, not sure if you were or not, so he tricked both Cashman and I, which is “us”
Im not a fan of Cashman or Cole, a good GM would have seen the sticky stuff situation coming, and Cole shouldnt have taken the cheating up to the next level like he did. Screw them both.

**jnewmark** · 10-27-21, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by ymike673 View Post

Yes. Go Braves, Beat the cheaters!

Rather see the cheaters get beat then see Boston win.

**ThePinStripes** · 10-27-21, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Paul Zuvella View Post

Well I was hoping we signed him, not sure if you were or not, so he tricked both Cashman and I, which is “us”
Im not a fan of Cashman or Cole, a good GM would have seen the sticky stuff situation coming, and Cole shouldnt have taken the cheating up to the next level like he did. Screw them both.

Half an internet forum of casual fans saw that coming. It's not like it was wild conjecture- his spin rate and control spiked as soon as he got to Houston. He went from league average to dominant. It's literally information you can get on the internet for free. It's one thing to take a 2 year flier on a guy like that (cash, trade, whatever). It's another to anchor the next decade of a multi-billion dollar institution's money on it. How is it not part of the diligence done? There certainly wasn't a discount for risk.

I'd love to see Cashman's portfolio. He absolutely does not believe in hedging for any risk. Not injury, not cheating (how many PED players did he sign in their prime only to have the rug pulled out from under him like it did with Cole and ST), not performance- nothing. His model accounts for none of that. Everyone will stay healthy, everyone will have a perfect career year and etc.

**Yankee Tripper** · 10-27-21, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by jnewmark View Post

Rather see the cheaters get beat then see Boston win.

Why not both?

**sd.** · 10-27-21, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by primetime714 View Post

We all knew about it here, it would be shocking if it wasn't accounted for in their evaluation of him. Which means they have to feel confident he's a top tier pitcher regardless of substances. Either that or they totally underestimated a reactive commissioner that gives no real second thought to changing the game on a whim.

I may be wrong, but I still like Cole as a top tier pitcher going forward. His intelligence, determination and physical abilities are rivaled by few pitchers in the game. He'll do what he has to be great, including taking advantage of trends, advantages and other oversights in the game. Hard for him to adjust mid-season given how poorly the rule change was managed and he actually did a decent job of adapting pre-injury considering everything.

I really think it is the bolded one. I think we all knew something was off with the way the Astros made every pitcher drastically better, and we all knew what it was based on Bauer calling them out directly... we just expected Cole to keep doing it when he got here. Honestly, with the way he has handled everything, especially with the Astros sign stealing, I think it is impossible to predict what the commissioner is going to do, what he is going to care about, and when.

**primetime714** · 10-27-21, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by Mixwell View Post

There's no way he knows that before free agency starts. I promise you Seager doesn't even know where he's playing next year yet.

Yea the media especially this time of year has no real source, they're just headlining grabbing with predictions less reliable than you could find from a random fan. Yankee rumors like this will dominate too because they're bigger headline grabbers. And they know they can back off it when actual information comes out and people always forget who predicted what anyway. Such a dirty industry with little/no accountability.

**matt2351** · 10-27-21, 11:41 AM

Does anyone else see a conflict between these two narratives?

Narrative #1 - "Cashman and the FO have access to information that we as fans don't have and therefore it is impossible for us to critique their decision-making."
Narrative #2 - "Cashman and the FO couldn't possibly have know about X or Y." X or Y in these cases being things that many folks on a message board called out before the fact and not retrospectively.

Again, I give props to the Cashman PR machine for staking out territory on all sides of every issue. This grants them the ability to never be seen as wrong and to muddy the waters to such a degree that no one knows which side is up - the ultimate effect is mass gaslighting.

**ymike673** · 10-27-21, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by matt2351 View Post

Does anyone else see a conflict between these two narratives?

Narrative #1 - "Cashman and the FO have access to information that we as fans don't have and therefore it is impossible for us to critique their decision-making."
Narrative #2 - "Cashman and the FO couldn't possibly have know about X or Y." X or Y in these cases being things that many folks on a message board called out before the fact and not retrospectively.

Again, I give props to the Cashman PR machine for staking out territory on all sides of every issue. This grants them the ability to never be seen as wrong and to muddy the waters to such a degree that no one knows which side is up - the ultimate effect is mass gaslighting.

Too bad they can't build a Championship team as well as they can spin the bull.

**effdamets** · 10-27-21, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by ymike673 View Post

Too bad they can't build a Championship team as well as they can spin the bull.

I feel like Cashman spends all of his time in the back room, mastering the bullsh*t excuses.

**Bauer** · 10-27-21, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by primetime714 View Post

We all knew about it here, it would be shocking if it wasn't accounted for in their evaluation of him. Which means they have to feel confident he's a top tier pitcher regardless of substances. Either that or they totally underestimated a reactive commissioner that gives no real second thought to changing the game on a whim.

I may be wrong, but I still like Cole as a top tier pitcher going forward. His intelligence, determination and physical abilities are rivaled by few pitchers in the game. He'll do what he has to be great, including taking advantage of trends, advantages and other oversights in the game. Hard for him to adjust mid-season given how poorly the rule change was managed and he actually did a decent job of adapting pre-injury considering everything.

Originally posted by sd. View Post

I really think it is the bolded one. I think we all knew something was off with the way the Astros made every pitcher drastically better, and we all knew what it was based on Bauer calling them out directly... we just expected Cole to keep doing it when he got here. Honestly, with the way he has handled everything, especially with the Astros sign stealing, I think it is impossible to predict what the commissioner is going to do, what he is going to care about, and when.

A highly intelligent point about the "reactive commissioner" who changes the game on "a whim." Manfred is a menace to the game. Where do they find these guys?

**ThePinStripes** · 10-27-21, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by matt2351 View Post

Does anyone else see a conflict between these two narratives?

Narrative #1 - "Cashman and the FO have access to information that we as fans don't have and therefore it is impossible for us to critique their decision-making."
Narrative #2 - "Cashman and the FO couldn't possibly have know about X or Y." X or Y in these cases being things that many folks on a message board called out before the fact and not retrospectively.

Again, I give props to the Cashman PR machine for staking out territory on all sides of every issue. This grants them the ability to never be seen as wrong and to muddy the waters to such a degree that no one knows which side is up - the ultimate effect is mass gaslighting.

Bingo.

**Mixwell** · 10-27-21, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by ymike673 View Post

Too bad they can't build a Championship team as well as they can spin the bull.

Cole may have lost a bit on his spin rates, but Cashman has still got it.

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