2021-2022 Off Season Thread

[Maynerd]

Hoping the braves win tonight so we can get on with the off season

We won't "get on with the off season" until there's a new Collective Bargaining Agreement. Nobody is going to sign a free agent, or pull the trigger on any sort of trade, until the ground rules for 2022 (and forward) are known. We don't know what changes might happen with regard to free agent eligibility. We don't know about a salary cap, or a floor, or a luxury tax. We don't know if there will be a lockout, or a strike.

So, the end of the World Series won't represent the beginning of the off season (with regard to roster construction). It will take a new CBA to kick that into gear.

The off-season of disappointment and broken dreams.

Well, THAT has already begun.

[Paul Zuvella]

Right he picked Kluber. Just want to add important parts were Eric Cressey, Matt Blake (CLE), his tryout, and a cy young winner. Look my to priority is a starting catcher (anybody) and #2 SP (Robbie Ray). I gave up posting because (1) Brian is going to do like he always does: Expensive SS (Seager), Sanchez, Kluber, and Rizzo. (2) I don't agree with anybody. I just hope Kluber doesn't get more than 2 years.

Kluber?! 2 years?? Kluber would feel guilty signing a 2 year contract.

[primetime714]

Thanks for the clarification on the "media army" comment. I assume there were many articles questioning why the Yanks let Tanaka go. I do agree that my recollection is it didn't get questioned as much as I would have expected. I find it to be extremely circumstantial to implicitly blame that on excessive strong arming by Cashman and team but I suppose it is a possibility. There is always some trepidation for a reporter to question the people whose information they need and I don't personally believe that the trepidation is greater with Cashman than it would be with any other person of authority (whether it be the GM of another team, an elected official, ...).

This is a bit of an aside but I personally liked Kluber over Tanaka (assuming they would demand a similar contract). I think a problem the Yankees have had in recent years is the lack of intimidating starting pitching in the postseason. Despite Tanaka's relatively strong career postseason results, I didn't think his overall stuff and track record would ever make for a feared postseason pitcher on a go forward basis. Kluber had higher upside than Tanaka and I liked seeing the Yankees prioritize upside amongst their starters (and they had plenty of depth to handle the enhanced injury risk). There also is some evidence I think that Kluber helped some of the younger guys (I think Michael King is an example if I remember right) in ways that perhaps Tanaka wouldn't have done. Had the Yanks survived the Wild Card game, I preferred having Kluber as a playoff starter than Tanaka.

It ended up being moot because Tanaka versus Kluber wasn't the ultimate difference maker for the 2021 Yankees; instead it was surprisingly poor offense versus mediocre pitching, horrid fundamentals, bad and uncharacteristic production from their 2 "proven" closers (Chapman, Britton), and possible bad management of the Covid risk. I know there are other things people could point to as well (but I wouldn't agree with anyone who blamed the disappointing year on the starting pitching).

Yea, I think there's an unwritten/unexpressed understanding within the media that you have to tread lightly and respectfully when going after the Yankee front office if you want access and given Cashman's long tenure there's a clearer understanding of the lines you don't cross and probably benefits that come with a narrative more consistent to what the Yankees front office is trying to get out there. While as you mention its all circumstantial and I guarantee there likely is no direct strong arming or clear evidence that Cashman and the Yankees are manipulating this in anyway and the reporters are doing it for their own benefit, there is no doubt in my mind that Cashman and the Yankee front office and PR team are pulling the strings and planting the stories they want to get out there. I mean look no further than their hire of Aaron Boone as manager to see that they care deeply about the voices that project their narrative. They even said as much in the hiring process that his ability to handle the media was a key factor.

Now I suppose there's an argument to say, don't blame Cashman and the front office for effectively delivering their narrative, blame the media for not standing up against them and seeing through it or even blame the readers/viewers for making that profitable, but at the end of the day whether he's "strongarming" them or not kind of doesn't matter we as fans are still left with a media that provides a heavily slanted and biased narrative to the positive.

This is just one example of that from the past year. I mean think how little coverage the Garrett Whitlock disaster has gotten. That was our season, the Red Sox never make it to the postseason without him. The Red Sox scouted him off instagram and missed what our scouts had right in front them. Cashman chose to keep guys he later cut like Kriske, Thairo and Ford over him. Or the extreme risk of guaranteeing Britton 14M for 2022 in a year when they were working against a tight budget. Or losing a very effective relieve in Cessa to erase the mistake of Justin Wilson. On the flip side we still hear the stories about how the Yankees uncovered gems like Voit and Urshela years later when neither is doing much. We also hear about Clay Holmes and Wandy Peralta all of the time. We almost never hear about the disaster that is Aaron Hicks' 7 year deal.

Kluber over Tanaka as you mention was far from the worst looking at foresight. It was a risky gambit on upside that if it panned out might've improved their chances at postseason success. However its a gamble Cashman seems to keep losing on as he did the same on Paxton and others. To not have this choice questioned by any of the NY media is disappointing. I'm just fed up with the real stories not getting out there. Instead we constantly hear about a GM that is consistently able to get his team into the playoffs with a budget and resources that far exceeds most of his peers. And I guarantee if the Braves win we'll hear endlessly about the "crapshoot" playoffs from the NY media ignoring the fact that prior to this year since 2014 (Giants), arguably the best/hottest team entering the playoffs won. And never has a wild card team won since the playoff format changed, making it more important than ever to win your division and the Yankees happen to play in arguably the hardest division in baseball (or at least the AL) to win going forward.

And I did just do a search to check my bias. I see one piece from NJ.com here that clearly indicates the story: https://www.nj.com/yankees/2021/01/m...-contract.html. The only thing I could find from a news organization (not a blog) questioning it was a piece from the Florida News Times here: https://floridanewstimes.com/the-yan...-tanaka/95919/.

Concerning though is this piece from the NY Post that clearly says "His decision led the Yankees led to sign Corey Kluber and acquire Jameson Taillon in a trade with the Pirates."
https://nypost.com/2021/04/19/masahi...d-not-go-well/

Perhaps there's more I missed and perhaps this is just a microcosm of all that is wrong with modern day journalism and I'm using the Yankees to highlight that and giving too much blame to Cashman for taking advantage of industry wide dysfunction, but I think it would be naive to think he's not using this dysfunction to his full advantage which to me is against the best interest of us as fans that want to have a team that is held accountable for producing championships and building a roster that is truly competitive not one that is spun to be so. Again though this is just my opinion based on the evidence I see and I respect if you feel differently and think its fair at least to say that I'm exaggerating the "strongarm" aspect of it.

[Paul Zuvella]

I find that most fans seem to think Tanaka chose to play in Japan and even some that thought he was demanding boatloads of money from the Yankees even though if you look at his comments it was very clear that he wanted to be a Yankee above any other option available to him and he ultimately took less per year than what Kluber got to play in Japan. I think the fact that there were many storylines about his personal reasons for playing in Japan cloud the fact that he would've been more than happy to stay with the Yankees if they were so inclined to clear the budget for him.

As for the media army comment, do you not find it curious that in the biggest media market in the world not one reporter chose to write about the risk of jettisoning a steady hand like Tanaka for a pitcher that hadn't pitched in 2 years in a rotation that already had big question marks behind Cole? Or why no one questioned them not finding some additional money for him with all the money locked up in the bullpen? Or why this blunder was not called out when unsurprisingly Kluber landed on the IL for the better part of the year? Whether Cashman or the Yankees front office is directly doing anything to manipulate these storylines is purely speculation on my part, but it seems all too peculiar that moves like this are rarely, if ever, called out in the press. I'm sure Tanaka's personality plays into that where he isn't going to call attention to it forcing them to write about it, but the story was there and it was clear as day to me that the Yankees chose Kluber over Tanaka. Why was that never questioned and why do most think it was Tanaka that didn't want to return?

A lot of these media guys are scared of Cashman. They want to stay in his good graces so we don’t get the tough, but obvious questions asked/answered. A few weeks ago he got pissed that someone dared to question the payroll and how much Hal spends. Definitely seems like he would have players shun a reporter who was asking questions he didn't like.

[Zimmer's Helmet]

Yea, I think there's an unwritten/unexpressed understanding within the media that you have to tread lightly and respectfully when going after the Yankee front office if you want access and given Cashman's long tenure there's a clearer understanding of the lines you don't cross and probably benefits that come with a narrative more consistent to what the Yankees front office is trying to get out there. While as you mention its all circumstantial and I guarantee there likely is no direct strong arming or clear evidence that Cashman and the Yankees are manipulating this in anyway and the reporters are doing it for their own benefit, there is no doubt in my mind that Cashman and the Yankee front office and PR team are pulling the strings and planting the stories they want to get out there. I mean look no further than their hire of Aaron Boone as manager to see that they care deeply about the voices that project their narrative. They even said as much in the hiring process that his ability to handle the media was a key factor.

Now I suppose there's an argument to say, don't blame Cashman and the front office for effectively delivering their narrative, blame the media for not standing up against them and seeing through it or even blame the readers/viewers for making that profitable, but at the end of the day whether he's "strongarming" them or not kind of doesn't matter we as fans are still left with a media that provides a heavily slanted and biased narrative to the positive.

This is just one example of that from the past year. I mean think how little coverage the Garrett Whitlock disaster has gotten. That was our season, the Red Sox never make it to the postseason without him. The Red Sox scouted him off instagram and missed what our scouts had right in front them. Cashman chose to keep guys he later cut like Kriske, Thairo and Ford over him. Or the extreme risk of guaranteeing Britton 14M for 2022 in a year when they were working against a tight budget. Or losing a very effective relieve in Cessa to erase the mistake of Justin Wilson. On the flip side we still hear the stories about how the Yankees uncovered gems like Voit and Urshela years later when neither is doing much. We also hear about Clay Holmes and Wandy Peralta all of the time. We almost never hear about the disaster that is Aaron Hicks' 7 year deal.

Kluber over Tanaka as you mention was far from the worst looking at foresight. It was a risky gambit on upside that if it panned out might've improved their chances at postseason success. However its a gamble Cashman seems to keep losing on as he did the same on Paxton and others. To not have this choice questioned by any of the NY media is disappointing. I'm just fed up with the real stories not getting out there. Instead we constantly hear about a GM that is consistently able to get his team into the playoffs with a budget and resources that far exceeds most of his peers. And I guarantee if the Braves win we'll hear endlessly about the "crapshoot" playoffs from the NY media ignoring the fact that prior to this year since 2014 (Giants), arguably the best/hottest team entering the playoffs won. And never has a wild card team won since the playoff format changed, making it more important than ever to win your division and the Yankees happen to play in arguably the hardest division in baseball (or at least the AL) to win going forward.

And I did just do a search to check my bias. I see one piece from NJ.com here that clearly indicates the story: https://www.nj.com/yankees/2021/01/m...-contract.html. The only thing I could find from a news organization (not a blog) questioning it was a piece from the Florida News Times here: https://floridanewstimes.com/the-yan...-tanaka/95919/.

Concerning though is this piece from the NY Post that clearly says "His decision led the Yankees led to sign Corey Kluber and acquire Jameson Taillon in a trade with the Pirates."
https://nypost.com/2021/04/19/masahi...d-not-go-well/

Perhaps there's more I missed and perhaps this is just a microcosm of all that is wrong with modern day journalism and I'm using the Yankees to highlight that and giving too much blame to Cashman for taking advantage of industry wide dysfunction, but I think it would be naive to think he's not using this dysfunction to his full advantage which to me is against the best interest of us as fans that want to have a team that is held accountable for producing championships and building a roster that is truly competitive not one that is spun to be so. Again though this is just my opinion based on the evidence I see and I respect if you feel differently and think its fair at least to say that I'm exaggerating the "strongarm" aspect of it.

This is an excellent post. Well said.

[yank4life2005]

Cashman should try to move Chapman this offseason..Eat some money as he has a limited NTC.

[bucky]

Kluber?! 2 years?? Kluber would feel guilty signing a 2 year contract.

No. I don't know what will happen but I never blame a player for taking the money. I think there are many teams that will make him offers for 1 year around 10M (35 and a no hitter) but all players want a multi year. This is why he took 1 year with us (we were fav to win) to get a multi year this year. Ells was way too much and too long and he didn't feel guilty - Gardy got a raise. (Happ is another example. we were lucky to get out of Happ's 3rd year). I want a solid (dependable) #2 SP I just don't feel Kluber is a fit for us (like last year) because we have Monty (3) and 4-5 with backups. He has other non stat factors that I listed that will help him sign with us and I feel our FO looks at him #2.

[philleotardo]

Cashman should try to move Chapman this offseason..Eat some money as he has a limited NTC.

I think the limited part ended in the re-negotiated deal. Pretty sure it’s full now. As much as I hated the signing and re-negotiation, I think they might as well keep him for ‘22.
I thought I read that the RHRP market was fairly thin. Green might get a return of players, rather than salary dump.

[primetime714]

A lot of these media guys are scared of Cashman. They want to stay in his good graces so we don’t get the tough, but obvious questions asked/answered. A few weeks ago he got pissed that someone dared to question the payroll and how much Hal spends. Definitely seems like he would have players shun a reporter who was asking questions he didn't like.

Great point, its easily observable how entitled he feels in those interviews and indignant reactions like that to what is a fairly harmlessly posed question (started off with "what do you say to those..."), show that. I feel fairly confident in assuming that not a single reporter in that room would dare ask the same question posed about Cashman himself unless they never planned to be in that room again or unless they cleared it with the Yankee PR team first. Even though the obvious follow-up question to his response on Hal would've been: "if its not the money what would you say to fans that question how its being spent?" Zero chance anyone would dare ask something reasonable like that.

[yank4life2005]

I think the limited part ended in the re-negotiated deal. Pretty sure it’s full now. As much as I hated the signing and re-negotiation, I think they might as well keep him for ‘22.
I thought I read that the RHRP market was fairly thin. Green might get a return of players, rather than salary dump.

Yes you are correct. I was looking at the prior deal.

I think Loasiga has the stuff to close out games.

[primetime714]

I think the limited part ended in the re-negotiated deal. Pretty sure it’s full now. As much as I hated the signing and re-negotiation, I think they might as well keep him for ‘22.
I thought I read that the RHRP market was fairly thin. Green might get a return of players, rather than salary dump.

I agree and think Green should be a top candidate to be moved in the offseason. He's an effective reliever at a reasonable price that will appeal to a lot of other organizations. I highly doubt he is dealt, but it would make a lot of sense to trim his salary and replace him with internal or lower cost options.

[ThePinStripes]

Hoping the braves win tonight so we can get on with the off season

More fuel for the crapshoot fire

[RoyWilliams]

Glad the off season starts but with ATL winning maybe cashman says see its a crap shoot. but i am glad ATL won it on the road so i did not have to listen to that Chop all night when they won it.

Let the off season start and the Cashman spin about winning is luck.

[Benefactor]

88 win braves win.

[Yankees1962]

Winning the WS is a crapshoot as I don't think many here thought the Braves were going to win it. I'm honestly surprised that they were able to handle the Dodgers and Astros relatively so easily.