2021-2022 Off Season Thread

[Tock Ada Shot]

So if the Dodgers spend $250M+ and the Yanks spend $250M+ on payroll, the Dodgers will be labeled as being serious about winning championships - and the Yankees won't be?

I'm confused.

I see your point regarding payroll but the Dodgers don't have a blind committment to Cashman as the GM and puppet managers like Boone. As long as Cashman is calling the shots (both in the front office and on the field) and Hal is complicit in allowing Cashman to do so, IMHO, nothing will change. I truly wish that wasn't the case...really. It has taken me a while to to come to this conclusion but like Zimmer's Helmet points out, "this is the new Yankee way of doing things. They’ll make offers to free agents, but they’ll typically underbid the best offer because they’re not serious about signing them...it’s a facade they put up for the fanbase..garbage they’ve been spewing these last few years."

[primetime714]

Frazier will go elsewhere, grow his hair and get a fresh start. Red haired baseball players aren’t that common but a fresh start worked for Justin Turner. Frazier can only go up from here. Or out of mlb totally.

If healthy and in the right environment he could breakout again he’s always been streaky. But yea boom or bust here. It’d be curious to see if anyone could get sustained defensive improvement out of him that’s always been his biggest weakness. 2020 felt like a mirage of sorts, but if he was always playing RF and they simplified things for him it’s possible. I also wonder if anyone would ever try making him into a 1B, probably not as it’s not worth the effort and I don’t think he could handle a position change but if his bat re-emerges with the universal DH coming he’ll find his way back to mlb. I think he settles on a minor league deal with incentives

[jnewmark]

If they’re engaging in negotiations in good faith, they wouldn’t be underbidding the best offer unless they really don’t want the player or the cost associated.

I find it embarrassing that they initially offered Verlander over $8 million less than the QO he rejected from Houston. That’s a poor way to begin a negotiation. They only bumped their offer to 1 year/$25 million once they got wind Houston was offering 2 years/$50 million.

They would have been better off not engaging with him at all if that’s their way of negotiating now.

Where did you get the part about offering him 8 mil less ?

[jnewmark]

Because Cashman probably knew Verlander wanted 2 years. This way he can say he made the offer and was turned down.

Just curious here. Would you have wanted him for two years for 50 mil ?

[primetime714]

A pretty fair assessment. A trade to the A's (for Olson and Manaea) probably lowers that 1.9 HR/IP ratio with about half his starts being in that big ballpark. Manaea gave up 25 HRs last season in 180 innings. The A's won't be taking much of a risk if they think German can keep that number about the same (for about $8M less), and German might be to the point where he's about to "figure it all out" - IMO he hasn't reached his ceiling yet. I think he can be a #3 starter in 2022.

If he can be part of a package that lands a better starter, IMO he's more valuable as a trade piece than as a member of the Yankee rotation in 2022. The Yankees need better than a #3 starter.

Yea I think you look to move him for a pitcher with less control but greater impact. Manaea makes sense. I guess hold onto him if he doesn’t have enough value to be a significant piece in a deal like that.

I don’t think he’ll provide enough innings or consistency to be a #3, he’s more of a 4/5 that can swing to the bullpen with maybe #3 upside, but unlikely to see that.

Although I would be curious to see if Blake and team would try to tweak anything with German. They probably wouldn’t have even tried last year because he was coming back from so much missed time. If they have a plan to tweak his fastball he might be an interesting hold

[HelloNewman]

Did Cashman’s Administrative Assistant write this?

Yes, and poorly too. I lost count of the awful takes even before the '"scouts" showed up.

[primetime714]

I must have missed this - has it been reported that this is what happened? I was guessing the Yanks made their offer and Houston countered, kind of like "bring us your best offer and give us a chance to beat it."

Another guess - maybe they offered the 1yr for $10M with the leverage of adding a second year (if necessary) for $25M total and then upped the offer to 1yr @ $25M.

I really hope there’s no truth to the 10M offer to a player that received and could’ve still accepted a QO at nearly double that. Even as a first offer in negotiation that’s just saying we are not serious from the get go. Although as much as I trash on Cashman I don’t believe they actually offered that, fake news.

[HelloNewman]

Yea I think you look to move him for a pitcher with less control but greater impact. Manaea makes sense. I guess hold onto him if he doesn’t have enough value to be a significant piece in a deal like that.

I don’t think he’ll provide enough innings or consistency to be a #3, he’s more of a 4/5 that can swing to the bullpen with maybe #3 upside, but unlikely to see that.

Although I would be curious to see if Blake and team would try to tweak anything with German. They probably wouldn’t have even tried last year because he was coming back from so much missed time. If they have a plan to tweak his fastball he might be an interesting hold

German's not a #3 on any planet. If baseball ever brings back the Mendoza starter/reliever hybrid, that might be his best role.

[ppa79]

I don't think we are getting Olson. Based on reports the A's are asking for the moon.

[sjb23]

IMO If Billy Beane is trying to get the best return for Olson (especially from Cashman) then it's probably a negotiations tool to come out publicly and "ask for the moon".

[ojo]

If healthy and in the right environment he could breakout again he’s always been streaky. But yea boom or bust here. It’d be curious to see if anyone could get sustained defensive improvement out of him that’s always been his biggest weakness. 2020 felt like a mirage of sorts, but if he was always playing RF and they simplified things for him it’s possible. I also wonder if anyone would ever try making him into a 1B, probably not as it’s not worth the effort and I don’t think he could handle a position change but if his bat re-emerges with the universal DH coming he’ll find his way back to mlb. I think he settles on a minor league deal with incentives

I have little doubt that Frazier can go on to have a Hal McRae-type MLB career: below average, bordering on a liability in the OF, but a set-it-and-forget it DH. If he can get past his neurological issues. I’m rooting for him!

[ymike673]

Just curious here. Would you have wanted him for two years for 50 mil ?

No. I would not. Just pointing out that Cashman will work this plan not to sign any of the top free agents.

[Yankees1962]

No. I would not. Just pointing out that Cashman will work this plan not to sign any of the top free agents.

Why would Cashman work his plan not to sign any top free agents?

[primetime714]

German's not a #3 on any planet. If baseball ever brings back the Mendoza starter/reliever hybrid, that might be his best role.

Yea I agree. He’s best in a role where he won’t have to use his fastball much if at all. His curve is top notch, his change up is above average, his 4 seamer and sinker are both below average at best. I only said #3 ceiling because we’ve seen it briefly from him before, I think that’s very unlikely going forward which is why I’d be happy to trade him if he has value.

[Yankees1962]

Just curious here. Would you have wanted him for two years for 50 mil ?

Few of us would want Verlander at that contract.

[bucky]

FYI. I posted Durham back after the AFL had their All star game (? highlight catch). I hope he survived the Rule V. (I think) The good point with Rule V is if they don't make it (in this case) we get them back.

Yankees prospect Elijah Dunham was named as the most improved player in the Arizona Fall League.

SOURCE: MLB.com
Nov 20, 2021, 8:43 PM ET