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**Portbb** · 11-29-21, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by joshuaeagan View Post

If you were Judge, would you even want to sign a long term deal? The team clearly does not seem to want to put forth resources to win when the opportunity is right in front of them. Bargain bin shopping is not going to win you pennants when the window is closing. I would do everything in my power if I were him to have a monster year and then go somewhere that will compliment me as a player and go for it when the window is wide open in front of them.

Might as well trade him if you are not going to build around him. He should walk if this team is going into 2022 with this roster + simmons and a couple of reclamation projects.

They need to lock Judge up before free agency.

**Spinner129** · 11-29-21, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Portbb View Post

They need to lock Judge up before free agency.

if they are going to continue on a path of half-assing it and being "just good enough", they should move him now.

**Zimmer's Helmet** · 11-29-21, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by HelloNewman View Post

Really, the parallels between what's happening in the New York baseball power dynamic now and what happened in the mid-1970s are striking, except with the franchises reversed.

Cohen is playing the role of George Steinbrenner. Hal is playing M. Donald Grant.

Brick by brick, floorboard by floorboard, Cohen is ripping the foundation out from under Hal's feet, and like Grant before him, Hal is too complacent, pompous and stupid to see it happening.

Really, this is such a great analogy.

Hal is inflicting permanent damage to the Yankees brand as well as his father's legacy.

And the actions of today will be reflected in the next generation of baseball fans in this city.

When the Mets begin winning championships while the Yankees do their annual one-and-done playoff appearance, the Mets will own this city and become the preferred destination of every great free agent. Hal's Yankees will become a bloated afterthought.

Yankees are being completely shut out of this offseason by their apathy and arrogance. They're literally killing my passion for this team.

**jnewmark** · 11-29-21, 04:19 PM

All disappointment about signing a FA aside, is anybody else getting blown away by some of these contract numbers ? Is 30 mil a year the new norm ?

**Strategerie** · 11-29-21, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Art Vanderlay View Post

If the Yankees wouldn’t go 23 million for Ray, it’s hard to envision them making a significant move.

High risk for Ray to be Corbin 2.0. I agree it wasn't as bad as these other contracts but I think we were smart to not sign Corbin and I feel fine about walking away from Ray.

I think Scherzer is a huge injury risk (for that price) given his age and how hard he was pushed this year.

I really like Seager but 10 years, $325M for a guy with his injury history and declining defense is not wise IMO

I remain confident that the Yankees will spend whatever budget they were allocated to spend (which will likely put them in the top 3 or 4 payrolls). I continue to want them to be patient and allocate their funds wisely (and don't think either Scherzer or Seager, in particular, would have been wise). I am worried that this market is pushing up the cost of a Judge extension. I am not worried at all (but actually pleased) by the Yanks ' inaction so far - there is plenty of time to improve the team for 2022 and I don't want them to be impulsive, particularly in a hot market for the players.

**Zimmer's Helmet** · 11-29-21, 04:23 PM

Sorry Matt, apologies in advance. I'll take the suspension. Screw you Hal, you snake. You're an embarrassment to this great franchise and you don't deserve the privilege of owning it. This is disgraceful when your window to win with Cole, Stanton, DJ, Chapman and Judge is now:

Top 10 $ committed to free agents so far:

Texas: $561.2 million
New York Mets: $254 million
Toronto: $121 million
Seattle: $115 million
Detroit: $77 million
Houston: $67 million
Miami: $53 million
Los Angeles Angels: $45 million
St. Louis: $44 million
San Francisco: $36 million
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) November 29, 2021

**Strategerie** · 11-29-21, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by joshuaeagan View Post

If you were Judge, would you even want to sign a long term deal? The team clearly does not seem to want to put forth resources to win when the opportunity is right in front of them. Bargain bin shopping is not going to win you pennants when the window is closing. I would do everything in my power if I were him to have a monster year and then go somewhere that will compliment me as a player and go for it when the window is wide open in front of them.

Might as well trade him if you are not going to build around him. He should walk if this team is going into 2022 with this roster + simmons and a couple of reclamation projects.

They have one of the top payrolls every year.

They have had the best winning percentage in just about each of the last 3 or 4 decades.

Arguably the most storied franchise in baseball.

...

Absolutely, Judge should want to re-sign with the Yankees. It comes down to whether the Yankees value him in the same ballpark as some other team values him (eg, how much do the Yankees knock down his value for injury risk/possibility for him to need to be a DH).

**jpao89** · 11-29-21, 04:30 PM

The problem here is one of overcompensation. The Yankees were known for blowing money on black hole contracts that hurt them. OK, they stopped doing that. Now, they are gun shy to a fault. Cashman believes that they are going to be better off if they keep the money and go money ball. In other words, if they can't sign free agent X, they will sign Y And Z and together have X's productivity while saving the money.

But that leads to Cashman and his analytics master trying to be too cute. Looking for "comeback players" of the "bargain bin." It also leaves Cashman hiding behind his analytics group by turning them into autopilot.

I hate to say it, but in today's game, sooner or later you have to bite the bullet and give out a big contract if you want to win. What that places a premium on is what always was a premium. Can so and so who you are about the lavish with money play in NY? Are they for real?

Oh my!!! suddenly analytics takes it in the nether regions and you lose your autopilot when answering such questions. Look at Cole. I believe Cole did and can pitch in NY very well. But another question was pregnant before he signed. Was he for real? You cannot go around yapping about the Astro's cheating and not do some research into perhaps how the guy from Houston you are about to sign maybe cheated, or at the very least is relying on something to obtain those spin rates that elevated his career.

Here we are. Cashman will soon give his annual monotone speech about the prices being too high. Cashman will then talk about how he was in on a tone of players and thought his "gesture" contract offers should have been enough. And when nothing happens, Cashman can go back to putting the analytics autopilot in control. Hey, hey tried but it just didn't work so we will have to go with the same ole brew on the field.

**False1** · 11-29-21, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by RoyWilliams View Post

The Brett Gardner Jokes are boring really and old. Even if they bring him back as a backup it will be after they do what they want to do. Even last year he was suppose to be the backup OF with Frazier and Hicks ahead of him. But Hicks got hurt and Frazier became what i thought he would always be.

What's getting really old is the Yankees re-upping him. It's past jokes; it's literal frustration for some fans including this one. I have rooted as hard for Gardner as anyone on this board I'd wager. I fought with other forumers when he was in AAA and people were saying he'd never amount to anything but a 5OF on a bad team.

If they bring him back it hurts the team I'm trying to root for. A team that has no margin for error. A team that should be BANKING on guys like Hicks getting hurt, that refuses to play Stanton in the OF regularly. Better yet, a team that should be replacing Hicks as starter and giving him Gardner's job as 4OF (if they can't trade him instead).

Gardner sucks up a spot, sucks up a few million dollars for a team that apparently is now resorting to checking under the couch cushions for spare change. If you're not going to materially upgrade CF, give 4OF to Florial or someone else with options. I mean, they let Allen rot in AAA all year last year. They found like four 4OFs that could approximate what Brett Gardner can do at this stage in his career. It's beyond time to move on, and it's also time for people here to stop pushing back on the frustration surrounding his looming re-signing right now with elite players flying off the board.

EDIT: yeah, what sd. said.

**primetime714** · 11-29-21, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by joshuaeagan View Post

If you were Judge, would you even want to sign a long term deal? The team clearly does not seem to want to put forth resources to win when the opportunity is right in front of them. Bargain bin shopping is not going to win you pennants when the window is closing. I would do everything in my power if I were him to have a monster year and then go somewhere that will compliment me as a player and go for it when the window is wide open in front of them.

Might as well trade him if you are not going to build around him. He should walk if this team is going into 2022 with this roster + simmons and a couple of reclamation projects.

Actually this is starting to feel like their best route right now. If they're not going to play at the top of the FA market and they're not going to trade top propsects, tear it all down and let the kids play and build around them for the future.

**False1** · 11-29-21, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post

Really, this is such a great analogy.

Hal is inflicting permanent damage to the Yankees brand as well as his father's legacy.

And the actions of today will be reflected in the next generation of baseball fans in this city.

When the Mets begin winning championships while the Yankees do their annual one-and-done playoff appearance, the Mets will own this city and become the preferred destination of every great free agent. Hal's Yankees will become a bloated afterthought.

Yankees are being completely shut out of this offseason by their apathy and arrogance. They're literally killing my passion for this team.

First, after letting elite FAs or elite guys on the block get snatched up by the competition, they'll realize what you (and I) have been saying for a few years now... that this real, visible apathy from the richest team in baseball will carry consequences. Then, they'll jump in with the same poorly time urgency that netted them Ells, McCann and Beltran in a kneejerk reaction. Then, they'll complain that their own fans are spoiled and it's all a crapshoot anyway.

**HughesIsNasty** · 11-29-21, 04:37 PM

Just trade Judge. Clearly we aren’t going to operate as the early 2000s Yankees. Hal is in charge and he won’t spend like his father. He is in this to make money, not to win titles. Trade Judge now and get a haul of close to MLB ready prospects and we can re-tool.

**primetime714** · 11-29-21, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by yank4life2005 View Post

Marlins closing in on Stallings

Another good defensive Catcher, gone.

This is really shaping up to be a "skip year".

**ojo** · 11-29-21, 04:44 PM

The Yankees are filling the vacuum of fiscal responsibility in the face of the looming CBA negotiations and lockout. The fact Steve Cohen went rogue means they need to spin a tale of astute observational skills.

**RoyWilliams** · 11-29-21, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post

Sorry Matt, apologies in advance. I'll take the suspension.

Screw you Hal, you snake. You're an embarrassment to this great franchise and you don't deserve the privilege of owning it. This is disgraceful when your window to win with Cole, Stanton, DJ, Chapman and Judge is now:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet">Top 10 $ committed to free agents so far: Texas: $561.2 million New York Mets: $254 million Toronto: $121 million Seattle: $115 million Detroit: $77 million Houston: $67 million Miami: $53 million Los Angeles Angels: $45 million St. Louis: $44 million San Francisco: $36 million— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1465441338300592133?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well none of the top teams are on that list. I am not happy either but as Kay said i will give them till ST and to be 3rd on that list would only take a small signing.

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