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**ojo** · 11-29-21, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by False1 View Post

My fandom started with some lean times. After 2 or 3 good seasons from '84 - '86, with exciting players like Mattingly, Henderson, Winfield, Guidry, Righetti, and interesting (sometimes maddening) back page stories, the first decade of being a fan was pretty miserable. Obviously that started to turn in '94. But even in the late 80's and early 90's, the team was interesting. The owner could drive you mad but you knew he was as intense about winning as you were as a fan. Even in the early 10's after the core effectively disintegrated, to me the team was still watchable.

2021 was the first season where I wasn't planning my time with Yankee baseball in mind. It had nothing to do with their W/L record. I've rooted for losing Yankee teams. It had everything to do with being a poorly constructed roster led by a GM that has gone hostile on his fans, a field manager that has the personality of a sack of potatoes, a lack of star players with NYC-sized personalities, and a lack of really any intrigue whatsoever. You knew what was going to happen in specific games, you knew what was going to happen at the deadline, and most knew that they'd be destined for WC2 with immediate elimination. Just zero intrigue.

If they return the same team next year, it could get ugly.

Those '85 and '86 teams were purposely under-constructed due to Steinbrenner's participation in that collusion scheme. Andre Dawson? Kirk Gibson? Jack Morris? Carlton Fisk? Tim Raines? Oh what might've been.

**matt2351** · 11-29-21, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by ymike673 View Post

Very good chance we see that attendance drop starting this season. Don't see how bringing back the 2021 Yankees is going to really excite the fans.

Analysis is complicated by Covid, but I think we will look back at the attendance numbers for 2021 as the beginning of a downward trend. We often can't see history while we are in it. It is only in retrospect that we can situate things.

**ymike673** · 11-29-21, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by False1 View Post

My fandom started with some lean times. After 2 or 3 good seasons from '84 - '86, with exciting players like Mattingly, Henderson, Winfield, Guidry, Righetti, and interesting (sometimes maddening) back page stories, the first decade of being a fan was pretty miserable. Obviously that started to turn in '94. But even in the late 80's and early 90's, the team was interesting. The owner could drive you mad but you knew he was as intense about winning as you were as a fan. Even in the early 10's after the core effectively disintegrated, to me the team was still watchable.

2021 was the first season where I wasn't planning my time with Yankee baseball in mind. It had nothing to do with their W/L record. I've rooted for losing Yankee teams. It had everything to do with being a poorly constructed roster led by a GM that has gone hostile on his fans, a field manager that has the personality of a sack of potatoes, a lack of star players with NYC-sized personalities, and a lack of really any intrigue whatsoever. You knew what was going to happen in specific games, you knew what was going to happen at the deadline, and most knew that they'd be destined for WC2 with immediate elimination. Just zero intrigue.

If they return the same team next year, it could get ugly.

100% true. I had more fun rooting for bad Yankees teams in the early 90's then last season's "playoff" team.

**RippThaJaker** · 11-29-21, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Strategerie View Post

High risk for Ray to be Corbin 2.0. I agree it wasn't as bad as these other contracts but I think we were smart to not sign Corbin and I feel fine about walking away from Ray.

I think Scherzer is a huge injury risk (for that price) given his age and how hard he was pushed this year.

I really like Seager but 10 years, $325M for a guy with his injury history and declining defense is not wise IMO

I remain confident that the Yankees will spend whatever budget they were allocated to spend (which will likely put them in the top 3 or 4 payrolls). I continue to want them to be patient and allocate their funds wisely (and don't think either Scherzer or Seager, in particular, would have been wise). I am worried that this market is pushing up the cost of a Judge extension. I am not worried at all (but actually pleased) by the Yanks ' inaction so far - there is plenty of time to improve the team for 2022 and I don't want them to be impulsive, particularly in a hot market for the players.

I agree. IMO, with game changing players still on the board like Simmons, there is still time to improve the team for 2022. According to my proprietary analytics, we were favored to win the World Series but the crap shoot theory won out (unfortunate). I trust Brain to hold steady and make improvements to give us even bigger odds of winning the second wild card next year, IMO.

**ymike673** · 11-29-21, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by ojo View Post

Those '85 and '86 teams were purposely under-constructed due to Steinbrenner's participation in that collusion scheme. Andre Dawson? Kirk Gibson? Jack Morris? Carlton Fisk? Tim Raines? Oh what might've been.

Those teams had plenty of hitting. Not getting Jack Morris when he was available probably cost the Yankees a few first place finishes.

**YankeePride1967** · 11-29-21, 08:00 PM

Looks like I will have another year free of baseball. If Cashman thinks this team losing the wild card was a fluke. Finishing fourth next year will seem even more so. It isn’t the fact they aren’t winning, it is they are absolutely unwatchable.

**matt2351** · 11-29-21, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by RippThaJaker View Post

I agree. IMO, with game changing players still on the board like Simmons, there is still time to improve the team for 2022. According to my proprietary analytics, we were favored to win the World Series but the crap shoot theory won out (unfortunate). I trust Brain to hold steady and make improvements to give us even bigger odds of winning the second wild card next year, IMO.

So, let me get this straight. You've had an account for 11 years and your first post is a troll of an active community member? This is is your first and last warning. Don't do it again.

**dpbddd99** · 11-29-21, 08:04 PM

Our new shortstop, ex-Met Jose Peraza. https://nypost.com/2021/11/29/mlb-fr...r-league-deal/

**ojo** · 11-29-21, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by ymike673 View Post

Those teams had plenty of hitting. Not getting Jack Morris when he was available probably cost the Yankees a few first place finishes.

Raines (or Brett Butler) in CF would've slotted Rickey back to LF though. Morris and Fisk would've been a hell of a battery, and the ultimate smackdown for Sox fans (since it was incompetence that led the Sox to miss the deadline on filing paperwork (Sullivan was in denial about the ramifications of the players' recently-won rights).

**False1** · 11-29-21, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by matt2351 View Post

So, let me get this straight. You've had an account for 11 years and your first post is a troll of an active community member? This is is your first and last warning. Don't do it again.

I admire it in a way LOL.

**yank4life2005** · 11-29-21, 09:02 PM

Marlins attempting to trade Alfaro. I hope this is not the move Cashman makes.

**dabomb2045** · 11-29-21, 09:17 PM

I rarely make an appearance on here anymore but the time has come for me to re-appear for a bit. I just need to say that I am totally disgusted with what this organization has become. They are a total joke. Yanks fans need to stop buying tickets and make sure YS is half empty next year. Ownership does not deserve your hard earned money on the crap product they push out every year. All in the name of lining Scrooge Hal's pockets. Its gross. Remember when after winning our third title in a row in 2000, we signed the best FA SP available (Moose)? 21 years later, we respond to getting spanked (again) by our arch rival by doing absolutely nothing. These are not the Yankees anymore. They are just like many of the other fraud teams out there that don't give a damn. Just be mediocre and good enough to put up the farce of being a competitor so the casuals still go to games and waste money. Around and around we go.

**HelloNewman** · 11-29-21, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by ojo View Post

Those '85 and '86 teams were purposely under-constructed due to Steinbrenner's participation in that collusion scheme. Andre Dawson? Kirk Gibson? Jack Morris? Carlton Fisk? Tim Raines? Oh what might've been.

Collusion didn't kick in until after the 1985 season. What did in that almost-great 1985 team was the brain trust counting on ancient Phil Niekro to be the #2 starter behind Guidry, either him or their big free-agent signing for that season, Ed Whitson ... Morris would have been the difference-maker that year but he didn't become available until after 1986.

(Of course, after the Niekro/Whitson mistake in 1985, they attempted to set things right in 1986 by trading for ... Britt Burns. Another not-so-great moment in Yankee history.)

**RoyWilliams** · 11-29-21, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by dabomb2045 View Post

I rarely make an appearance on here anymore but the time has come for me to re-appear for a bit. I just need to say that I am totally disgusted with what this organization has become. They are a total joke. Yanks fans need to stop buying tickets and make sure YS is half empty next year. Ownership does not deserve your hard earned money on the crap product they push out every year. All in the name of lining Scrooge Hal's pockets. Its gross. Remember when after winning our third title in a row in 2000, we signed the best FA SP available (Moose)? 21 years later, we respond to getting spanked (again) by our arch rival by doing absolutely nothing. These are not the Yankees anymore. They are just like many of the other fraud teams out there that don't give a damn. Just be mediocre and good enough to put up the farce of being a competitor so the casuals still go to games and waste money. Around and around we go.

That is the problem. There are enough casual fans and out of town people and business owners who give out tickets that no matter what it will not go down if they field a team that has a chance to win. Unless the team finishes like 4th people are going to go just like watching on tv as well. Enough that it will not hurt them.

**dabomb2045** · 11-29-21, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by RoyWilliams View Post

That is the problem. There are enough casual fans and out of town people and business owners who give out tickets that no matter what it will not go down if they field a team that has a chance to win. Unless the team finishes like 4th people are going to go just like watching on tv as well. Enough that it will not hurt them.

Yeah this is true. I think a 4th place finish is likely. In all honesty, its what we need to happen. Let them have a sub .500 year and see much they like seeing the stadium having 20-25K for September games.

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