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    #421
    Originally posted by Portbb View Post

    Since 2011 the Astros were under .500 6 times. The Red Sox and Rays under .500 3 times. The best teams in the AL right now.
    The Cubs are in a rebuild. If Yankee fans are discouraged by making the playoffs and not getting to the WS in a dozen years why is a rebuild not considered?
    Unfortunately different philosophies of ownership. Astros, Sox and Rays want to win the WS. Yankees ownership just wants a competitive team. So a total rebuild is not going to happen.

    Comment

      #422
      Originally posted by matt2351 View Post

      The more interesting part, to me, is Samson saying what I (and others here) have said - the Yankees will not win another championship with Cashman as the GM. To me, this is pretty irrefutable. If you look at the roster, the luxury tax situation (arbitration, etc), the farm system, the major league coaching and management, and the state of teaching throughout the organization, there is no reasonable way, IMO, you can make an argument for this team winning a championship anytime in the foreseeable future.
      I dont think they go anywhere with or without a new GM for the foreseeable future. They Cole contract is just a ton of wasted money. Chapman contract is awful and they're stuck with it. Stanton, even if he stays healthy, is going to get pretty ugly. Judge is going to be a FA. Torres and Gleyber are either busts or they're going to be costing a good amount soon. Hicks is just dead money. I'm not sure what the heck they're gonna do about the rotation.
      And the farm is anything but promising.

      I would bet money the Yankees don't win a championship in the next 5-6years. This is a mess 2 decades in the making it's not getting fixed in a season.
      Q: Who’s the guy on your roster that would have been overlooked if not for analytics? Cashman: Ronald Torreyes. He’s an analytical darling.

      Comment

        #423
        Originally posted by ThePinStripes View Post

        I dont think they go anywhere with or without a new GM for the foreseeable future. They Cole contract is just a ton of wasted money. Chapman contract is awful and they're stuck with it. Stanton, even if he stays healthy, is going to get pretty ugly. Judge is going to be a FA. Torres and Gleyber are either busts or they're going to be costing a good amount soon. Hicks is just dead money. I'm not sure what the heck they're gonna do about the rotation.
        And the farm is anything but promising.

        I would bet money the Yankees don't win a championship in the next 5-6years. This is a mess 2 decades in the making it's not getting fixed in a season.
        So true. Go position by position and look at how many question marks there are with this team despite having a $200 million payroll:
        C - ?
        1B - Voit? LeMahieu? FA?
        2B - Torres?
        SS - ?
        3B - Urshela who I like, but objectively is very mediocre
        RF - Judge. Easily our best player but will soon be expensive
        CF - Hicks (lol) and probably Gardner when Hicks goes down for the year with an injury
        LF - Gallo and his .707 OPS?
        DH - The guy who should be playing LF instead of allocating $22 million to a DH who still rests once a week

        And that’s not even getting into the rotation. This roster needs a makeover and I have no confidence in Cashman to do the job. Regardless, he’s almost certainly just going to roll out the same lineup with a new SS and then complain about players under performing when we miss the playoffs or barely sneak in with the 2nd Wild Card spot.
        David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

        Comment

          #424
          Originally posted by ThePinStripes View Post

          I dont think they go anywhere with or without a new GM for the foreseeable future. They Cole contract is just a ton of wasted money. Chapman contract is awful and they're stuck with it. Stanton, even if he stays healthy, is going to get pretty ugly. Judge is going to be a FA. Torres and Gleyber are either busts or they're going to be costing a good amount soon. Hicks is just dead money. I'm not sure what the heck they're gonna do about the rotation.
          And the farm is anything but promising.

          I would bet money the Yankees don't win a championship in the next 5-6years. This is a mess 2 decades in the making it's not getting fixed in a season.
          Agreed. A new GM would not immediately make things better. But maybe could lead to a Championship in 3-4 seasons. But keeping Cashman as GM means nothing will ever change. So another decade or more of this crap.

          Comment

            #425
            Originally posted by ThePinStripes View Post

            I dont think they go anywhere with or without a new GM for the foreseeable future. They Cole contract is just a ton of wasted money. Chapman contract is awful and they're stuck with it. Stanton, even if he stays healthy, is going to get pretty ugly. Judge is going to be a FA. Torres and Gleyber are either busts or they're going to be costing a good amount soon. Hicks is just dead money. I'm not sure what the heck they're gonna do about the rotation.
            And the farm is anything but promising.

            I would bet money the Yankees don't win a championship in the next 5-6years. This is a mess 2 decades in the making it's not getting fixed in a season.
            Couldn't agree more. I think a really good GM could at least get the team to show signs of hope in a relatively short time. We have seen that with other teams. I agree that the rot at the center of the organization will take a while to fully root out and we are likely looking at a 6-8 -year project to get it to be what we would like. That clock only starts when Cashman is gone and is replaced by a really smart and creative GM.

            Since I don't see Cashman getting fired anytime soon, I would wager there is a near-zero chance the Yankees win a championship in the next decade. We are almost assuredly in the midst of a drought that will eclipse 1979-1995. That was a 17-season drought. We are at 12 and counting. The drought from 1963-1976 was 14 seasons long. The official longest drought was 1903-1922. That one was 20 seasons, but for 10 of those 20 they weren't even known as the Yankees, they were the Highlanders. I have trouble counting that stretch. If we remove that one, the three longest championship droughts were 1963-1976 (14 seasons), 1979-1995 (17 seasons), and 2010-present (12 seasons). It is a bad time to be a fan of this franchise.

            Comment

            • ymike673
              #425.3
              ymike673 commented
              10-10-21, 02:49 PM
              Editing a comment
              The Highlanders are the Yankees. The 03-22 drought is the longest. Until Cashman surpasses it.
            • HelloNewman
              #425.4
              HelloNewman commented
              10-10-21, 06:02 PM
              Editing a comment
              Officially the Highlander-Yankee streak from 1903-22 is definitely the longest, however I get where I think Matt is coming from, at the time it was happening the Yankees were more or less the Colorado Rockies of their day, a who-cares franchise with no real legacy to protect. The Giants were New York's "legacy" team back then. The other three droughts carry a sense of having fallen from something that just wasn't nthere for the Highlanders, who had nothing to fall from.
            • spanky185
              #425.5
              spanky185 commented
              10-11-21, 04:04 PM
              Editing a comment
              Newman, they didn't exist before 1903. Heck, the American League didn't exist before 1903. I can understand about not wanting to count that streak (being the turn of the century equivalent of an expansion team), but comparing them to Colorado? That's a bridge too far imo.
            #426
            Originally posted by NelsonMuntz View Post

            So true. Go position by position and look at how many question marks there are with this team despite having a $200 million payroll:
            C - ?
            1B - Voit? LeMahieu? FA?
            2B - Torres?
            SS - ?
            3B - Urshela who I like, but objectively is very mediocre
            RF - Judge. Easily our best player but will soon be expensive
            CF - Hicks (lol) and probably Gardner when Hicks goes down for the year with an injury
            LF - Gallo and his .707 OPS?
            DH - The guy who should be playing LF instead of allocating $22 million to a DH who still rests once a week

            And that’s not even getting into the rotation. This roster needs a makeover and I have no confidence in Cashman to do the job. Regardless, he’s almost certainly just going to roll out the same lineup with a new SS and then complain about players under performing when we miss the playoffs or barely sneak in with the 2nd Wild Card spot.
            If they don't extend Judge his arbitration salary for 2022 should be high. Not as high as Mookie Betts record $27mil the year before his Free Agency but it could be $20mil.

            Comment

              #427
              Originally posted by ymike673 View Post

              It's not like Hal took over a year ago. He has been the owner since around 2007. And before that he did work with his father. There is no way he does not understand the game. He just understands counting his money more. It would take a mammoth collapse and a tremendous down turn in attendance to move him to do anything. And sadly I don't see the Yankees ever being bad enough for that to happen.
              I don't know what "being bad enough" would look like, but I suspect the Yankees as now constructed will probably finish 4th in the American league East.

              Comment

                #428
                Originally posted by Bauer View Post

                I don't know what "being bad enough" would look like, but I suspect the Yankees as now constructed will probably finish 4th in the American league East.
                But they could still win 90 games and finish 4th. Which would make them competitive and that's all Hal wants. To be really bad enough you are talking about being under .500 for more than one season.

                Comment

                  #429
                  So we gave up on Evoldi? Too bad

                  Comment

                    #430
                    Originally posted by NelsonMuntz View Post

                    So true. Go position by position and look at how many question marks there are with this team despite having a $200 million payroll:
                    C - ?
                    1B - Voit? LeMahieu? FA?
                    2B - Torres?
                    SS - ?
                    3B - Urshela who I like, but objectively is very mediocre
                    RF - Judge. Easily our best player but will soon be expensive
                    CF - Hicks (lol) and probably Gardner when Hicks goes down for the year with an injury
                    LF - Gallo and his .707 OPS?
                    DH - The guy who should be playing LF instead of allocating $22 million to a DH who still rests once a week

                    And that’s not even getting into the rotation. This roster needs a makeover and I have no confidence in Cashman to do the job. Regardless, he’s almost certainly just going to roll out the same lineup with a new SS and then complain about players under performing when we miss the playoffs or barely sneak in with the 2nd Wild Card spot.
                    Here are the positions they have a decent (and they are far from ideal) solution for that they dont need to address with extreme urgency.
                    1b. Voit
                    2b. DJ
                    3b. Urshella
                    RF: Judge (with a very quickly closing window)
                    DH: Stanton, when he's healthy
                    LF: Gallo, for a year, which is far less than idea
                    #3,4,5 pitchers. The combination of Cole, Monte, Taillon, German, Nestor and whatever other $3M pitcher Cashman picks up will probably hold this down

                    Here are the positions which are black holes:
                    #1 Starter. No, I didn't forget about Cole. For 3-4 months, after spider tack, he wasn't even a #3.
                    #2 Starter.
                    Catcher
                    SS
                    CF
                    Closer
                    Probably setup man

                    Basically, other than 2B (with a very league average hitting DJ) he's got the easiest positions filled, and the hardest part of the rest of the roster to fill with just about zero payroll to do.
                    Back half of the rotation
                    Middle infield and catcher
                    CF
                    Two most important bullpen position

                    If Cashman is at $200M and he's only the easy half of the way there, I doubt $400M would even get him to a truly dominant team.
                    Q: Who’s the guy on your roster that would have been overlooked if not for analytics? Cashman: Ronald Torreyes. He’s an analytical darling.

                    Comment

                      #431
                      Originally posted by Yankees1962 View Post
                      Did any of you expect Britton to have such an injury. I seriously doubt it.
                      He does have a bit of an injury history, and he's not getting any younger... but that is beside the point. Exercising that option was called out for its foolishness the moment it was reported. He should have declined and put the ball in Britton's court to exercise his player option for 1 year, or go out into the marketplace that had just allowed Hand to clear waivers on a 1/$10MM deal. And even if he did walk, this team had serious needs (like a real 4OF, a real backup 1B, etc) that Cashman skimped on but spent anyway, when he could have held some money in reserve for say, real pitching help at the deadline rather than a free Heaney.

                      Comment

                        #432
                        Originally posted by Pakimobzta View Post
                        Obviously this is all conjecture since we don’t really know him. I think Hal is a try hard. Wants to show everyone badly that he’s not like his dad and he can make his own mark and do it his own way. He knows the 2009 championship had many core players from his father’s tenure so he would never really get full credit for that.

                        How he differs or tries to show that he is different than George:

                        - He refuses to fire managers/GMs even when they need to be. He is scared it’ll end up like his father’s tenure where there is a carousel of managers and GM’s in and out the door.
                        - Believes in staying out of the spotlight, instead of voicing displeasure of players/ teams/ coaches through the media which in my opinion is a good thing, but sometimes it gives fans the appearance he doesn’t care especially when team is struggling.
                        - Runs team strictly as a modern business. Analytics and profit first. Company reputation and legacy on the back burner.
                        - Fiscally responsible businessman. Doesn’t believe in going above and beyond payroll wise to win. Always half measures, to have the product good enough to make money, but winning isn’t paramount. MLB restrictions introduced during his tenure have seemingly given him a viable excuse not to do this. He finds a reason not to, while the boss found ways to circumvent or disregard the system.

                        I think George realized in his later age that he had faults on how he ran the team, albeit 6 championships, and wanted his heir to be better. He knew Hal would be like this and knew Hank was just like him. He found a middle ground in Steve Swindal, but the moron messed it all up with his actions off the field. Now the fans must suffer.
                        I agree with this, but I think its a hybrid of wanting to operate outside of his father's shadow somewhat but also that he's just not as fired up as his old man. Clearly it's ok to not walk exactly in his father's footsteps and to try something more effective. If only he had that passion for the game and the fans passed down in his DNA.

                        I wonder what we'd look like today if Hank had survived his condition and ended up with the reigns. He seemed to have that passion his father had but also much of the bluster.

                        Comment

                          #433
                          Originally posted by Portbb View Post

                          Since 2011 the Astros were under .500 6 times. The Red Sox and Rays under .500 3 times. The best teams in the AL right now.
                          The Cubs are in a rebuild. If Yankee fans are discouraged by making the playoffs and not getting to the WS in a dozen years why is a rebuild not considered?
                          The marvel that is the NYY is that it's honestly not an absolute requirement. This team could completely reimage itself over the next few months and come into the 2022 season as one of the top contenders with a bit of a window of contention to go.

                          But... if they're going to continue to not go all in, especially after resetting the tax, they'd be fools to not rebuild. The thing I think that no fan wants is seasons like this, where they did not make the incremental moves and investments needed to truly compete at the highest level, but juuuuuust enough to lose in that WC2 game. Either go all in, or burn it down and start over.

                          Comment

                            #434
                            Originally posted by matt2351 View Post

                            Couldn't agree more. I think a really good GM could at least get the team to show signs of hope in a relatively short time. We have seen that with other teams. I agree that the rot at the center of the organization will take a while to fully root out and we are likely looking at a 6-8 -year project to get it to be what we would like. That clock only starts when Cashman is gone and is replaced by a really smart and creative GM.

                            Since I don't see Cashman getting fired anytime soon, I would wager there is a near-zero chance the Yankees win a championship in the next decade. We are almost assuredly in the midst of a drought that will eclipse 1979-1995. That was a 17-season drought. We are at 12 and counting. The drought from 1963-1976 was 14 seasons long. The official longest drought was 1903-1922. That one was 20 seasons, but for 10 of those 20 they weren't even known as the Yankees, they were the Highlanders. I have trouble counting that stretch. If we remove that one, the three longest championship droughts were 1963-1976 (14 seasons), 1979-1995 (17 seasons), and 2010-present (12 seasons). It is a bad time to be a fan of this franchise.
                            Near zero chance in the next decade??? That sounds like you're offering heavy odds that the Yankees will not win a WS by 2032. Assuming there actually are 10 WS played between now and then, I'd be real interested in what odds you're offering. I get the pessimism, but that's way overboard - Cashman or no.

                            Comment

                              #435
                              Originally posted by Portbb View Post

                              Since 2011 the Astros were under .500 6 times. The Red Sox and Rays under .500 3 times. The best teams in the AL right now.
                              The Cubs are in a rebuild. If Yankee fans are discouraged by making the playoffs and not getting to the WS in a dozen years why is a rebuild not considered?
                              The Dodgers? They didn't require a rebuild.

                              Comment

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