2021-2022 Off Season Thread

[Zimmer's Helmet]

Unfortunately trading for Stanton 100% ruled out any possibility of signing Harper.

That was an excuse. There was a glaring need for a LH power hitter with elite on-base skills which is why they eventually traded for Gallo.
He could have been the difference in 2019.

[bucky]

Here we ago again looking to spend on what was done rather then what we could have coming up the pipe line...We are fine at SS... PITCHING AND CATCHING ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE GAME!!

Nice Post. BINGO. This is what I want, too. I want a catcher (catcher from TB in arbitration) first and spend the money on starting pitching (not Kluber). As for SS I have no problem with Anthony Volpe later this year. First, does anyone know if he is playing in the Arizona League with Jason Dominques. Second, I don't want an expensive long term SS like Correa or Seager and rather see Ursela and Velazuez there for 1 year. Three,I enjoyed watching Allen in July and want to see Volpe this year.

super post

[ymike673]

That was an excuse. There was a glaring need for a LH power hitter with elite on-base skills which is why they eventually traded for Gallo.
He could have been the difference in 2019.

And 2020 and 2021 too.

[HelloNewman]

That was an excuse. There was a glaring need for a LH power hitter with elite on-base skills which is why they eventually traded for Gallo.
He could have been the difference in 2019.

I wanted Harper and his lefty power bat very much at the time, and I recall being told by a few influential posters/former posters here how "handedness" was a meaningless thing to worry about. Uh-huh.

[HelloNewman]

I see where the Cubs have hired Indians assistant GM Carter Hawkins, 37, as their new GM. I don't know a lot about Hawkins except that news reports say he was head of player development for the Tribe. I guess that would make his record something of a mixed bag but the Indians do seem to have the ability to develop interesting young starting pitching. At any rate, these are the kinds of hires other teams are making.

[primetime714]

Great article on Volpe and Paraza: https://sny.tv/articles/scouts-antho...kees-shortstop

Good stuff, indeed. I like both. I know there's talk of Volpe moving off of SS which I think is concerning for his long term value, but I actually like him to be able to stay at SS based on what I've seen and heard he makes all the plays and does so fairly consistently and its supported by low errors for a player his age. Peraza has the defensive upside to be top notch, so he's my untouchable of the two just because I feel strongly SS is one of the few positions you really have to source from within for any long term value and two-way potential plus players are gold. In FA I love Seager, but see him more as a short term SS (2-3 years) and long term 3B with the left handed bat this team needs. Correa is great, but will be overpaid in the grand scheme of things. Semien is better at 2B already and the team has too many 2B. Story I could get behind if the length of his deal is not crazy. Seager though is the right fit.

If the right opportunity arose I might trade Volpe just because I think its very possible he may be nearing his maximum trade value or at least there's potentially more downside value risk than upside after his 2021 season, but only if it was for a truly elite player (Jose Ramirez, etc.) that could put them over the top. I'd try to move Gleyber first though, but his value may be scorched at this point where the best course is to hope for a rebound. And we have to be realistic if they're not going to go all in on 2022 and 2023, than we need to keep these guys like Volpe to have a legit shot at the next home grown core to build a championship team around. So again it would have to be the right circumstances where its for an elite player that might put them over the top in the next few years otherwise, hold tight.

[Yankees1962]

Good stuff, indeed. I like both. I know there's talk of Volpe moving off of SS which I think is concerning for his long term value, but I actually like him to be able to stay at SS based on what I've seen and heard he makes all the plays and does so fairly consistently and its supported by low errors for a player his age. Peraza has the defensive upside to be top notch, so he's my untouchable of the two just because I feel strongly SS is one of the few positions you really have to source from within for any long term value and two-way potential plus players are gold. In FA I love Seager, but see him more as a short term SS (2-3 years) and long term 3B with the left handed bat this team needs. Correa is great, but will be overpaid in the grand scheme of things. Semien is better at 2B already and the team has too many 2B. Story I could get behind if the length of his deal is not crazy. Seager though is the right fit.

If the right opportunity arose I might trade Volpe just because I think its very possible he may be nearing his maximum trade value or at least there's potentially more downside value risk than upside after his 2021 season, but only if it was for a truly elite player (Jose Ramirez, etc.) that could put them over the top. I'd try to move Gleyber first though, but his value may be scorched at this point where the best course is to hope for a rebound. And we have to be realistic if they're not going to go all in on 2022 and 2023, than we need to keep these guys like Volpe to have a legit shot at the next home grown core to build a championship team around. So again it would have to be the right circumstances where its for an elite player that might put them over the top in the next few years otherwise, hold tight.

Why not keep Pereza and Volpe so that you can have a SS & 2nd combination for the next 10 years? Both are athletic middle infielders with some speed and pop that are good if not great fielders. I wouldn't move Volpe off of SS until you need to, but going into next season I would have both players at SS for AA and AAA seasons.

[Yankees1962]

Nice Post. BINGO. This is what I want, too. I want a catcher (catcher from TB in arbitration) first and spend the money on starting pitching (not Kluber). As for SS I have no problem with Anthony Volpe later this year. First, does anyone know if he is playing in the Arizona League with Jason Dominques. Second, I don't want an expensive long term SS like Correa or Seager and rather see Ursela and Velazuez there for 1 year. Three,I enjoyed watching Allen in July and want to see Volpe this year.

super post

Volpe and Dominiguez are not playing in the AFL this year.

[primetime714]

I wanted Harper and his lefty power bat very much at the time, and I recall being told by a few influential posters/former posters here how "handedness" was a meaningless thing to worry about. Uh-huh.

The big concern with Harper is the defense. In his late 20's he's already a sub par defender in a corner OF position. His bat would've been damn near perfect for this lineup and his durability is a huge plus. He would've been a much better investment than Stanton even at the incremental price because he hits lefty and is not so fragile where he'd need the DH spot before his mid 30's, but at the same time I'd still have questions if he's worth that contract given that he will never be a 2 way player. This is why I favored Machado at the time even though his bat was not as good and the handedness fit was not great.

Its interesting though this offseason in the sense that there's a similar tough choice in the fold with Seager vs.Correa. Correa is a legit two way superstar. Seager is the ideal lefty bat though perhaps even more so than Harper in some ways but leaves something to be desired on defense at least at SS.

[Yankees1962]

The big concern with Harper is the defense. In his late 20's he's already a sub par defender in a corner OF position. His bat would've been damn near perfect for this lineup and his durability is a huge plus. He would've been a much better investment than Stanton even at the incremental price because he hits lefty and is not so fragile where he'd need the DH spot before his mid 30's, but at the same time I'd still have questions if he's worth that contract given that he will never be a 2 way player. This is why I favored Machado at the time even though his bat was not as good and the handedness fit was not great.

Its interesting though this offseason in the sense that there's a similar tough choice in the fold with Seager vs.Correa. Correa is a legit two way superstar. Seager is the ideal lefty bat though perhaps even more so than Harper in some ways but leaves something to be desired on defense at least at SS.

If I had my druthers, I would sign Correa and then move him to 3rd when it's time. If you can't sign Correa then I would do the same thing with Seager if you can sign him.

[Zimmer's Helmet]

I wanted Harper and his lefty power bat very much at the time, and I recall being told by a few influential posters/former posters here how "handedness" was a meaningless thing to worry about. Uh-huh.

Yep. I remember that all too well.

[primetime714]

Why not keep Pereza and Volpe so that you can have a SS & 2nd combination for the next 10 years?

If one of them is eventually a 2B I tend to lean towards trading that player while he still has SS value. I think you get more return that way. Nothing wrong with a top notch 2B or 3B for that matter, but those are positions that unlike SS I think you can find value at more easily in both FA and the trade market if you need to and the chances of prospects turning into that truly elite top notch player is typically rare. That said if Volpe for example is legit offensive superstar where he could be an Altuve type at 2B or Jose Ramirez type at 3B or something a shade lower you hold tight, but with SS trade value and cost control he could probably generate the trade value to give you a guaranteed top notch talent albeit for fewer years and more dollars. Still you considerably remove a lot less downside risk that Volpe is only a mediocre hitter/player (ala Gleyber) by trading him at peak value for a guaranteed stud player. But you only do that if you're going all-in and you get a top notch talent that can be the difference in a championship push. Top talent in my view is what makes the difference in a championship or not. Yes you need the guys that get hot at the right time, but you're not really even in the mix without a couple of the top position players and at least two top tier pitchers. Cole, Judge, and Stanton clearly not enough even with Judge and Stanton both healthy this year and both were at their best entering the postseason.

[Zimmer's Helmet]

The big concern with Harper is the defense. In his late 20's he's already a sub par defender in a corner OF position. His bat would've been damn near perfect for this lineup and his durability is a huge plus. He would've been a much better investment than Stanton even at the incremental price because he hits lefty and is not so fragile where he'd need the DH spot before his mid 30's, but at the same time I'd still have questions if he's worth that contract given that he will never be a 2 way player. This is why I favored Machado at the time even though his bat was not as good and the handedness fit was not great.

Its interesting though this offseason in the sense that there's a similar tough choice in the fold with Seager vs.Correa. Correa is a legit two way superstar. Seager is the ideal lefty bat though perhaps even more so than Harper in some ways but leaves something to be desired on defense at least at SS.

The great thing with Seager is you can always shift him to 3B if/when Volpe or Peraza are ready. His bat is a perfect fit for this lineup.

[primetime714]

If I had my druthers, I would sign Correa and then move him to 3rd when it's time. If you can't sign Correa then I would do the same thing with Seager if you can sign him.

I wouldn't argue too much with that approach, I think it'll depend on the price. If Seager comes at a discount relative to Correa, I think he fits a little better. I think Seager is the better hitter of the two and argubably the best fit of anyone in baseball for what this lineup needs outside of maybe Trout. If the price is similar you have to consider Correa's defensive prowess. OAA has him as truly elite at SS where you probably wouldn't think of moving him off of SS for maybe 5 years or so. So if I'm buying the young elite hitter with the idea of moving him to 3B, I go with Seager who is the better hitter. If I'm buying a SS and potentially using Volpe or Peraza as trade bait for another elite player, go with Correa.

[primetime714]

The great thing with Seager is you can always shift him to 3B if/when Volpe or Peraza are ready. His bat is a perfect fit for this lineup.

Exactly. That would be my plan and why Seager is my top guy in this year's FA class. The offensive fit is too perfect to ignore and prior to this year where he came back from a fluke injury he was a perfectly average or slightly better SS capable of filling the immediate need there and well suited to slide over to 3B where he could be potentially be a plus defender for many years. And unlike Gleyber he's not a error magnet at SS, so I think the cries to move him off of SS will be more driven by the prowess of prospects like Peraza and Volpe than true limitations on Seager's part. I think Seager is a better, younger, left handed version of someone like Semien.