Announcement

**ThePinStripes** · 10-18-21, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by newhampfan View Post

I come back to my theory: Boone wants more years guaranteed than the Big Yank is willing to give at the moment; hence the delay. Myself, I 'd let Boone drift off to San Diego or St. Louis or wherever.

Boone is a symptom, not a cause.

Re Girardi: He got let go because he didn't always follow the binder. The team was 10x more disciplined and focused- and it was a younger team. We thought he was the one clinging to the binder- turns out he was the one resisting it. His bullpen management was great too. We may have been clamoring for him to get fired, but it turns out, what we wanted was to get rid of Cashman. We just thought Joe was responsible.

**hhill** · 10-18-21, 12:43 PM

In the NYT today, just a paragraph:

Boston Found a Top Reliever in the Yankees System. Blame Instagram.

Garrett Whitlock was rehabbing from elbow surgery when the Red Sox saw his videos on social media. Getting him for a pittance from a rival was icing on the cake.

**bucky** · 10-18-21, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by hhill View Post

RE Torres:-I believe he is a keeper at 2nd
SNY’s Anthony McCarron talked to a pair of MLB scouts, who advocated for the Yankees keeping Torres at second base.

Scout No. 1: “He’s too talented and too young not to rebound. I think he will.”

Scout No. 2: “I think he was thinking about those errors at shortstop. Then he was hurt and I think it all contributed to it. I think he was reading the newspapers. You start trying to hit three home runs in one at-bat, try to do too much. ... Torres’ best position is second base. You can see it -- he looks more comfortable there. His offense won’t rebound at shortstop.”

Torres, who his .259 with nine home runs in 127 games this year, is eligible for arbitration this winter. MLB Trade Rumorsprojects Torres’ 2022 arbitration salary at $5.9 million; He made $4 million in 2021. According to Spotrac, Torres is eligible for free agency following the 2024 season.

HUH??? Amazing. Every now and then we agree. I like Torres at 2nd, too. Urshlela/Volpe at SS, and Odor/DJ at 3rd. Odor (he goes into the box not for a walk) will be on the roster. I may not like his bat but I like him. (Odor) I never seen a 2nd baseman call time to talk to the starting pitcher and what he saw...

The reason why we sucked at SS was because we were late in making this move to 2nd. It's over, he is not going bad like Vlad Jr going back to 3rd. This happens all the time. I think everything is good/better with Torres at 2nd. Sure he will not be a top defender but he plays better there. And with Urshela and I want Volpe this year - SS has to be better.

Now we differ: my/our top priority is a starting catcher. (Trade Judge for a top catcher) Trade Sanchez for a back up 1st or LHP prospect. Make Austin Wells our BUC.. Then a solid #2 SP behind Cole (not Kluber).

Spend the money on starting pitching.

Thanks

**matt2351** · 10-18-21, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by hhill View Post

In the NYT today, just a paragraph:

Boston Found a Top Reliever in the Yankees System. Blame Instagram.

Garrett Whitlock was rehabbing from elbow surgery when the Red Sox saw his videos on social media. Getting him for a pittance from a rival was icing on the cake.

I won't blame a platform, but I will blame the Yankees' GM.

**hhill** · 10-18-21, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by bucky View Post

HUH??? Amazing. Every now and then we agree. I like Torres at 2nd, too. Urshlela/Volpe at SS, and Odor/DJ at 3rd. Odor (he goes into the box not for a walk) will be on the roster. I may not like his bat but I like him. (Odor) I never seen a 2nd baseman call time to talk to the starting pitcher and what he saw...

The reason why we sucked at SS was because we were late in making this move to 2nd. It's over, he is not going bad like Vlad Jr going back to 3rd. This happens all the time. I think everything is good/better with Torres at 2nd. Sure he will not be a top defender but he plays better there. And with Urshela and I want Volpe this year - SS has to be better.

Now we differ: my/our top priority is a starting catcher. (Trade Judge for a top catcher) Trade Sanchez for a back up 1st or LHP prospect. Make Austin Wells our BUC.. Then a solid #2 SP behind Cole (not Kluber).

Spend the money on starting pitching.

Thanks

I dont agree about Odor. He is symtomatic of the swing from the heels but lacks the consistent power to justify his ABs, plus he is a poor fielder at 3rd and avg at 2nd. Besides, if Torres is the reg 2nd baseman, there is little room for Odor. Make him an assistant coach if his enthusiasm is worthwhile. I like as a little league dad.

Cant have Urshula at short for long so that would req Volpe to read very soon.

If you want to trade Judge for a top catcher, let's get down to specifcs. Name the catcher. Realmuto? I wouldnt. Better yet, who would give Judge a 6-7 yr 300 million contract? I just dont think you are being real here. Maybe you can get decent value for Sanchez. Is Wells ready to be even a backup? Cachers need a lot of rest.

**ymike673** · 10-18-21, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by matt2351 View Post

I won't blame a platform, but I will blame the Yankees' GM.

Our elite scouting staff thought Whitlock and Eovaldi were not worth keeping. So we should trust them to make the right decisions.

**Roberto Kelly** · 10-18-21, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by ThePinStripes View Post

Boone is a symptom, not a cause.

Re Girardi: He got let go because he didn't always follow the binder. The team was 10x more disciplined and focused- and it was a younger team. We thought he was the one clinging to the binder- turns out he was the one resisting it. His bullpen management was great too. We may have been clamoring for him to get fired, but it turns out, what we wanted was to get rid of Cashman. We just thought Joe was responsible.

I fairly clearly remember Girardi being asked why he kept playing Chris Young, and he pretty exasperatedly gave an answer that more or less implied that the front office was forcing him to.

**False1** · 10-18-21, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by bucky View Post

HUH??? Amazing. Every now and then we agree. I like Torres at 2nd, too. Urshlela/Volpe at SS, and Odor/DJ at 3rd. Odor (he goes into the box not for a walk) will be on the roster. I may not like his bat but I like him. (Odor) I never seen a 2nd baseman call time to talk to the starting pitcher and what he saw...

The reason why we sucked at SS was because we were late in making this move to 2nd. It's over, he is not going bad like Vlad Jr going back to 3rd. This happens all the time. I think everything is good/better with Torres at 2nd. Sure he will not be a top defender but he plays better there. And with Urshela and I want Volpe this year - SS has to be better.

Now we differ: my/our top priority is a starting catcher. (Trade Judge for a top catcher) Trade Sanchez for a back up 1st or LHP prospect. Make Austin Wells our BUC.. Then a solid #2 SP behind Cole (not Kluber).

Spend the money on starting pitching.

Thanks

I disagree. I think the lineup is in dire straits, while the rotation last year was a strength. It was a top 5 rotation in the AL, even with Kluber, German and Cortes only amassing ~45 starts among them. Taillon came around in a big way in the second half. Monty had a nice first season back from injury. It was only a few innings and until he proves otherwise he'll always be an injury risk, but Severino looked good. Schmidt, Gil, King all still in the mix for spots in 2021, with a few other arms as darkhorses (e.g. Garcia if he recovers, Medina on the way, perhaps even Waldichuk sighting this year).

The FA SP options are a mixed bag, with most either being HOF-ish types that you can probably rule out (Scherzer, Kershaw), HOF-ish guys or next tier down likely on the downswing and/or with significant injury risk (Grienke, Verlander, Cueto), or guys that had potentially career years with decent odds of not living up to a massive long term deal (Ray, Rondon). The rest are guys likely to be middle to back of rotation talents IMHO (Stroman, Gausman, Rodriguez) that will want more money and years than they're worth. Oh, and Bauer, if he's crazy enough to opt-out of his deal and ever pitches again LOL.

My guess is that the 2021 spot reserved for Kluber will be used in a similar way this year... by taking on a reclamation project (either injury or performance) for Blake and Cressey to work with to try and extract value and reinvest elsewhere. They may re-sign Kluber. Or take a shot on a Syndergaard to see if he can give you 150 IP or so, or see if Blake can get Bundy back on the rails. Or Paxton LOL. Or, if Verlander were willing to do something similar to Kluber on a 1 year deal for less than his "name brand" would generally command, maybe they roll the dice with him. But the bottom line is unless they go bonkers for a 37 year old Scherzer who has indicated he doesn't want to pitch in NY there are far more meaningful FA options for position players.

They could also explore a trade. There was an article linked here recently re: Pablo Lopez. The Marlins actually have several guys that are interesting trade targets but I think that article's trade proposal (Frazier and Andujar IIRC) was extraordinarily light on what it would take to get a young, cost-controlled, proven SP.

There is reason to be optimistic that the Yankees finally have a pitching coach that can help pitchers perform closer to their upper talent levels than past regimes. There is dire need for a complete rebuild of the lineup. I'd kick the tires on rotation upgrades, but I would definitely make the lineup the priority.

**False1** · 10-18-21, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by hhill View Post

I dont agree about Odor. He is symtomatic of the swing from the heels but lacks the consistent power to justify his ABs, plus he is a poor fielder at 3rd and avg at 2nd. Besides, if Torres is the reg 2nd baseman, there is little room for Odor. Make him an assistant coach if his enthusiasm is worthwhile. I like as a little league dad.

Cant have Urshula at short for long so that would req Volpe to read very soon.

If you want to trade Judge for a top catcher, let's get down to specifcs. Name the catcher. Realmuto? I wouldnt. Better yet, who would give Judge a 6-7 yr 300 million contract? I just dont think you are being real here. Maybe you can get decent value for Sanchez. Is Wells ready to be even a backup? Cachers need a lot of rest.

Odor is actually a plus fielder at 2nd. He's being paid for by the Rangers in '22, so he's a lock to make the roster. If he works in the offseason and can adequately backup 3B, he'll be fine as a bench player/insurance. However, they need to deal Gleyber while he still has some value and to eliminate the temptation to have DJL shift to 1B.

Trading Judge is never going to happen, I think even if this team went into rebuild mode he'd be the one they hang on to.

**Yankee Tripper** · 10-18-21, 02:35 PM

There are currently 47 men on the 40 man roster.
Kluber and Rizzo are FAs which brings it down to 45 (did I miss any other FAs)
Gardner has a player option which most here expect him to exercise.
They need to get down to 40 (x days? after WS)
They have a number of prospects that need to be added or risk a Garret Whitlock 2.0 situation next year.
What chaff the cull through DFA or non-tender will interesting as will questions about which guys can be dealt ahead of rule 5.

**Zimmer's Helmet** · 10-18-21, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post

There are currently 47 men on the 40 man roster.
Kluber and Rizzo are FAs which brings it down to 45 (did I miss any other FAs)
Gardner has a player option which most here expect him to exercise.
They need to get down to 40 (x days? after WS)
They have a number of prospects that need to be added or risk a Garret Whitlock 2.0 situation next year.
What chaff the cull through DFA or non-tender will interesting as will questions about which guys can be dealt ahead of rule 5.

Seems like they have a ton of depth to swing a deal for Olson if they choose to do so.

**primetime714** · 10-18-21, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by sjb23 View Post

Yeah, I think we're probably both on the same page here. I won't be too broken up if the Yanks decide to keep Gallo, but for about $8M he can be an attractive trade piece for clubs that need a 30 HR guy and an athletic young player who don't mind the strikeouts and the low contact percentage. IMO he's more valuable as a trade piece than as a Yankee roster player. I think the OF might be fine with Stanton/ Hicks/Judge with Florial and Greg Allen serving as backups- until one of the starters gets hurt. I'd also love to see the Yanks re-acquire Dustin Fowler, for depth. Needless to say I'm against having Brett Gardner on the roster.

So in the end, a list of Gallo, Voit, Sanchez, Torres, Andujar & Frazier would all be available as part of a trade package to get a #2 or #3 starter IF 1) the Yanks sign Seager & Moreland, and 2) are willing to add two pitchers from the list of German/Gil/Medina/Schmidt to make the deal work.

For example: Pick two from Gallo/Voit/Sanchez/Torres/Andujar/Frazier and pick two from German/King/Gill/Medina/Schmidt to the Rockies for German Marquez.

Keep in mind If the universal DH is adopted in 2022, the values of the position players could go up. Also two of them might be more valuable to another club than they are to us as Yankee fans:

Kind of a twist on an old Paul Simon song: "One man's floor is another man's ceiling."

I'd actually only trade Gallo if they were acquiring an everyday/near everyday OFer that's a better fit perhaps not for Gallo directly, but in the offseason in general. I think the OF depth is actually really suspect. You've got Gallo and Judge right now that you can hopefully rely on, but will Judge's and Stanton's health remain? Hicks will be back, but it'd be a bad idea to expect anything from him given his health and performance. Stanton even under the most optimistic of projections could only play the OF ~40% of this time barring a front office change that's not coming. Physically he could probably play it more under the right circumstances given he was an everyday OF and is still young, but no chance this organization allows it. Florial I think should play a role this year, but he also has a checkered injury history and we don't know what type of player he can be at this level. The rest of their immediate OF depth is a collection of mostly "misfits" that carry injury question marks, potential salary question marks (potential non-tenders), and other roster question marks (out of options, etc.). So let's say as you mentioned they keep Allen and Florial as the depth behind Stanton/Hicks/Judge, that essentially means that both Allen and Florial are becoming everyday players quickly because Hicks' starting spot would be handed out quickly and Stanton will be DHing plenty. Besides the Yankees regularly use about 8 or 9 OFs in a given season, sometimes more. You almost have to keep Gallo because the OF depth is really bad without him. He's the most dependable everyday option they have given Judge's injury question marks. This is also why I think there's potential merit to making Gio and/or DJ a super sub and having one of them pickup OF in the offseason. Its tough though because this team really needs so much to be reasonably competitive and Gallo is an awkward fit, but his durability, defensive ability/versatility, left handed bat are hard to replace. So I don't know that you can really use him as a trade chip to improve other areas of the team because you'd instantly need to fill the gap in the OF after you trade him.

And the OF depth in this FA market is really bad. That said one plausible scenario I could see is dealing Gallo and signing a lower cost FA OF like a Corey Dickerson. He'd probably need a platoon partner for the right handed side though and couldn't be an option in CF like Gallo could, but he is well suited for LF and is a lefty

**sjb23** · 10-18-21, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post

Seems like they have a ton of depth to swing a deal for Olson if they choose to do so.

Yeah I was also thinking about this - He's a great fit but my guess is the A's won't move Olson unless they get "overwhelmed" by an offer.

What would you offer Oakland, if you had to "overpay"??

**ThePinStripes** · 10-18-21, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Roberto Kelly View Post

I fairly clearly remember Girardi being asked why he kept playing Chris Young, and he pretty exasperatedly gave an answer that more or less implied that the front office was forcing him to.

I feel like the Yankees always have one plainly horrible starter and reliever they utilize heavily while there are much better options and they should be DFAed. From Freddy Garcia to Cory wade to Mitre to Capuano to to the present day Heaney

**sjb23** · 10-18-21, 04:16 PM

I posted this in the wrong thread earlier:

Let's get us a new catcher:

Wilson Contreras - Cubs Willson Contreras Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Austin Nola - Padres Austin Nola Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Carson Kelly - D-Backs Carson Kelly Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Jose Godoy - Mariners Jose Godoy Minor & Winter Leagues Statistics & History | Baseball-Reference.com

Obviously Contreras is the most proven and will cost the most. I think they're all worthy candidates to team with Higashioka. Sanchez can and should be replaced IMO.

Announcement

2021-2022 Off Season Thread

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment