Another day, another mass shooting in America

[JL25and3]

So an adverse affect beyond someone's hurt feelings has to be shown in order for there to be racism?

In order for there to be non-trivial racism, yeah. I don’t really give a damn how someone feels about someone else. I care what happens as a result.

[Mr Coffee]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

In order for there to be non-trivial racism, yeah. I don’t really give a damn how someone feels about someone else. I care what happens as a result.

So if a black man refused to sell his car to a white person, actual racism?

[YankeePride1967]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

In order for there to be non-trivial racism, yeah. I don’t really give a damn how someone feels about someone else. I care what happens as a result.

Just speaking in general. Why anyone would care what someone they don’t actually know thinks about them, I have no idea. I am sure like everyone else there are people that don’t like me. And I lose zero hours sleep because of it. And like you said the problem comes when they make a decision on a job based on that or a spot on a team. That is the issue. I would rather work with someone I didn’t care for who knew their job than the nicest man/woman in the world who looked at their phone all day or had no clue how to do the job.

[JL25and3]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

So if a black man refused to sell his car to a white person, actual racism?

Yes, but still not particularly important socially or politically. Someone who's a dick isn't that big a deal. Now, if white people were generally unable to buy cars because of systematic disadvantages - unable to get car loans that black people could get - that would be something that we, as a society, would need to address.

[Soriambi]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

Just speaking in general. Why anyone would care what someone they don’t actually know thinks about them, I have no idea. I am sure like everyone else there are people that don’t like me. And I lose zero hours sleep because of it. And like you said the problem comes when they make a decision on a job based on that or a spot on a team. That is the issue. I would rather work with someone I didn’t care for who knew their job than the nicest man/woman in the world who looked at their phone all day or had no clue how to do the job.

That is AN issue, but I think it pales compared to systemic racism, which is largely unconscious.

[YankeePride1967]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

That is AN issue, but I think it pales compared to systemic racism, which is largely unconscious.

Correct to be clear I was not touching on that

[Saint Bernard]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

What makes an individual act of racism different for a white person as compared to say a black person?

Depends on the act.

Why does this even matter? White people do not deal with racism as a daily part of their lives.

[Mr Coffee]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

Yes, but still not particularly important socially or politically. Someone who's a dick isn't that big a deal. Now, if white people were generally unable to buy cars because of systematic disadvantages - unable to get car loans that black people could get - that would be something that we, as a society, would need to address.

So a white person can experience racism.

Thank you.

That's all I was saying from the beginning.

[Jersey Yankee]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

So a white person can experience racism.

Thank you.

That's all I was saying from the beginning.

Any human being on the face of God's Green Earth can experience racism. You can also experience racial hostility from your own damned race.

[Jersey Yankee]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

Depends on the act.

Why does this even matter? White people do not deal with racism as a daily part of their lives.

Only if said white people live their entire lives exclusively amongst their fellow white people. As long as there are others around of different races, and you have thoughts about those people, including automatically acting differently amongst those people than they would amongst their fellow white people, I'd say that some racial thoughts, stereotypes may occur.

I don't believe that anyone is without racism. Even Jesse Jackson once said that if he sees 2 big black guys in a dark alley, he starts getting scared.

If I see a Jew and presume that he's a diamond jeweler, or a Chinese person and presume that he knows martial arts, those are racial stereotypes.

Interestingly, in the POTUS thread, they're talking about the 2nd Amendment. Yet in the gun thread, we're talking about race. Very interesting!!! :gulp::O

[BRenninger]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

Back to the topic of guns. As is the norm for Trump, he sits in front of the TV, suggests raising the age to buy assault weapoms from 18 to 21 and now cameras off and again changed positions

You missed the memo. The NRA is now the 4th branch of our government.

[JL25and3]

So a white person can experience racism.

Thank you.

That's all I was saying from the beginning.

I said long ago that your statement was correct but trivial. Even that was probably crediting too much, since there was no adverse effect and you didn’t actually experience much of anything.

[YankeeFan1421]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

So a white person can experience racism.

Thank you.

That's all I was saying from the beginning.

They cannot experience true racism, no. I believe you that you believe you have experienced it, but no you haven't in my view.

It's more likely you've experienced feelings of vulnerability due to class bias and socio-economic status, leading to heightened sensitivity to all sorts of perceived slights and insults, but it's not racism.

I've been called racial slurs (well, borderline slurs) such as 'cracker'. That isn't racism. Not beyond a very elementary definition of it anyway. Likewise, I've heard things like "men are all alike". Similarly, that's not sexism.

Obviously neither is going to change the other one's mind on it and that's fine. As a teenager, I probably would have agreed with you, but life experience has taught me that I've never been subjected to racism nor sexism. I'm sorry that you believe you have (not because we know each other or care about each other, but because it sucks for anybody); it ultimately makes you a victim either way, and nobody deserves that.

[YankeeFan1421]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

And it's ok if you don't want to answer.

Waiting for others to disagree with me then piling on is more your style.

Leave the heavy lifting for those more able.

Well now that hurts.

[ajra21]

Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

Ever hear this joke?

"A man was floating across a state in a hot air balloon. Mid-trip, wondering where he was, he yelled down to a guy on the ground, 'Hey, where am I?'. And the guy on the ground yells up, 'you are in a balloon!' The guy in the balloon replies, 'You are a lawyer, aren't you?' And the guy on the ground says, 'Actually I am...how did you know?' And the guy in the balloon answers, 'Because you told me something 100% true and yet 100% worthless at the same time."

You seem like a reasonably smart person. I don't get why you tie up pages and points of debate by taking technicalities and blowing them up way out of proportion via a step by step process.

I think we all know what the poster was saying when he said there is no such thing as anti white racism or however he put it. It's a pretty common refrain. And one I basically agree with. Nobody with half a brain thinks that all minorities are free of prejudice or racist views, but never once in my nearly 5 decades on this earth with my light brown hair, pale skin and blue eyes have I been the victim of any kind of racism. Not once. Every single black person at this age has suffered, either overtly or covertly, either in a major or minor way, from racism. We can debate the magnitude of it, we can disagree on the right way to fight it, we can debate whether or not white people are truly holding anybody else down and to what degree, but I think we all agree that racism is still a problem...

Is it really that hard to understand the point he/she was making? i don't get why so often somebody makes a thematic or philosophical point the conversation gets into technicalities and arguing over phrasing.

Personally, if your approach was more in good faith and were along the lines of: "I get what you're saying. And while by no means do I think black on white racism has anywhere near the overall effects of white on black does, I actually think the impact is underrated. Let me tell you why..." and then cite something of meaning...THAT might be constructive and adding to what could be an interesting conversation or exchange of ideas. Rather than "you're wrong. black people can be racist too."

I mean wow...this is supposed to be a forum of reasonably intelligent and thoughtful people. Getting caught up in 'gotcha' technicalities is so tedious and derails the conversation.

this is very good.

thank you for writing this.