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    Originally posted by Texsahara View Post

    Funny

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      Originally posted by Paul Zuvella View Post

      Yeah I get it but if these doctors have some second thoughts about giving a certain substance to healthy adults, Im going to wait for a while before giving it to my child. Especially when it’s given to fight something that is no worse than the regular flu in children.
      To be clear - it wasn't about "second thoughts." Whether to boost is an entirely different conversation than whether to be vaccinated - it's about whether the initial vaccination offers sufficient protection and requires boosting. Physicians are inherently (and rightly) conservative - throughout the pandemic we've seen louder, politically motivated voices overpowering those who are more knowledgeable and careful.

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        Originally posted by YFIB View Post

        To be clear - it wasn't about "second thoughts." Whether to boost is an entirely different conversation than whether to be vaccinated - it's about whether the initial vaccination offers sufficient protection and requires boosting. Physicians are inherently (and rightly) conservative - throughout the pandemic we've seen louder, politically motivated voices overpowering those who are more knowledgeable and careful.
        Well I think its pretty well decided that boosters are needed after about 6 months. I read that the reason many voted against the boosters was concerns centered on the amount and quality of data available to weigh the booster's long-term effectiveness and its safety in young people.
        We went from worrying about its safety in young people, probably due to the myocarditis issue, to just a few weeks later we can give it to kids, we’ll just give them a smaller dose. Would love to know how we got from here to there.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Paul Zuvella View Post

          Well I think its pretty well decided that boosters are needed after about 6 months. I read that the reason many voted against the boosters was concerns centered on the amount and quality of data available to weigh the booster's long-term effectiveness and its safety in young people.
          We went from worrying about its safety in young people, probably due to the myocarditis issue, to just a few weeks later we can give it to kids, we’ll just give them a smaller dose. Would love to know how we got from here to there.
          The bolded part isn't well decided; there was a lot of this sentiment in the discussion:

          “The problem that troubled me is that we don’t know if boosters are necessary,” said Dr. Cody Meissner, a professor of pediatrics at Tufts University School of Medicine and a member of the F.D.A. advisory committee.
          Here's an overview, that quotes a lot of experts:

          https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/25/h...s-cdc-fda.html

          The key question is whether everyone needs a booster; that still isn't agreed to. If not, people don't want to recommend it. No one is saying the risk/benefit isn't there for the initial dosing.

          Comment


            Originally posted by YFIB View Post

            The bolded part isn't well decided; there was a lot of this sentiment in the discussion:



            Here's an overview, that quotes a lot of experts:

            https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/25/h...s-cdc-fda.html

            The key question is whether everyone needs a booster; that still isn't agreed to. If not, people don't want to recommend it. No one is saying the risk/benefit isn't there for the initial dosing.
            The 16-3 vote wasnt only about if people needed a booster, you can see in this article they were concerned about the boosters effect on young people.
            https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...booster-512543

            If these guys at the CDC who have already made a few mistakes that have cost the country dearly, are going to have to explain why any amount of something they were recently concerned about giving people, should go in my kids body to fight off what will probably be a bad case of the sniffles.

            As far as boosters go I’m going to plead ignorance. If it hasn't been decided that boosters are needed, why are they giving them to people and why are other countries mandating booster shots?

            And to be clear I understand what you are saying about the difference in initial vaccine and boosters. If Im going to give something to my kid, an adult should be able to take a few doses of it without worrying the doctors.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Paul Zuvella View Post

              The 16-3 vote wasnt only about if people needed a booster, you can see in this article they were concerned about the boosters effect on young people.
              https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...booster-512543

              If these guys at the CDC who have already made a few mistakes that have cost the country dearly, are going to have to explain why any amount of something they were recently concerned about giving people, should go in my kids body to fight off what will probably be a bad case of the sniffles.

              As far as boosters go I’m going to plead ignorance. If it hasn't been decided that boosters are needed, why are they giving them to people and why are other countries mandating booster shots?

              And to be clear I understand what you are saying about the difference in initial vaccine and boosters. If Im going to give something to my kid, an adult should be able to take a few doses of it without worrying the doctors.
              The article literally says they don't have the data to evaluate BOOSTERS in young people. No one in that article is questioning the initial vaccination in young people.

              Overall, these regulatory bodies are tasked to weigh the risk vs. benefit of a medicine or vaccine. If they don't think there's a need (and many, as I pointed out earlier, don't), then there's no potential benefit. It's not that it "worries" the doctors, it's that they don't see the need without more data.

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                CDC Director Rochelle P. Walensky, M.D., M.P.H., endorsed the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices’ (ACIP) recommendation that children 5 to 11 years old be vaccinated against COVID-19 with the Pfizer-BioNTech pediatric vaccine.
                "Our work continues, the fight goes on, and the big dreams never die." -- Elizabeth Warren

                Comment


                  Originally posted by YFIB View Post

                  The article literally says they don't have the data to evaluate BOOSTERS in young people. No one in that article is questioning the initial vaccination in young people.

                  Overall, these regulatory bodies are tasked to weigh the risk vs. benefit of a medicine or vaccine. If they don't think there's a need (and many, as I pointed out earlier, don't), then there's no potential benefit. It's not that it "worries" the doctors, it's that they don't see the need without more data.
                  They also say they are worried about the SAFETY of boosters in young people. The booster and the vaccine are the same substance.
                  A guy on the FDA panel said “ we cant know the effects this will have until we vaccinate more kids.”
                  They are telling us to inject a biotechnology that didn’t exist 18 months ago into our kids to fight a virus that doesn't cause any more harm to them than the actual flu.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Paul Zuvella View Post

                    They also say they are worried about the SAFETY of boosters in young people. The booster and the vaccine are the same substance.
                    A guy on the FDA panel said “ we cant know the effects this will have until we vaccinate more kids.”
                    They are telling us to inject a biotechnology that didn’t exist 18 months ago into our kids to fight a virus that doesn't cause any more harm to them than the actual flu.
                    I don't know any other way to say this, so I am done after this response. They are talking about the safety of the BOOSTER because they don't have data on the BOOSTER specifically. It's the same substance, but they haven't studied it as a BOOSTER. They have studied it as an initial vaccination, and are comfortable giving it in that context, which is why they approved it.

                    As I said earlier, medical science is appropriately conservative, and researchers are not going to be comfortable endorsing something that hasn't been studied, even if it's a boost of the same substance. Unfortunately, vaccine critics take advantage of this caution and exploit it. It's part of the reason we're in the mess we are in.

                    On your last point, you should really look up the rates of myocarditis associated with Covid. I'm pretty sure they are higher than the rates associated with the vaccines.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by YFIB View Post

                      I don't know any other way to say this, so I am done after this response. They are talking about the safety of the BOOSTER because they don't have data on the BOOSTER specifically. It's the same substance, but they haven't studied it as a BOOSTER. They have studied it as an initial vaccination, and are comfortable giving it in that context, which is why they approved it.

                      As I said earlier, medical science is appropriately conservative, and researchers are not going to be comfortable endorsing something that hasn't been studied, even if it's a boost of the same substance. Unfortunately, vaccine critics take advantage of this caution and exploit it. It's part of the reason we're in the mess we are in.

                      On your last point, you should really look up the rates of myocarditis associated with Covid. I'm pretty sure they are higher than the rates associated with the vaccines.
                      I’m going to try once more to explain. Lets say we have a bunch of doctors and a bottle of liquid. Doctors agree its ok for you to drink one cup of that liquid, but two cups is out of the question, they say it’s dangerous and you might not even need it.
                      Next week, same bottle. Doctors tell you its ok to let your kid take a few sips. What? No thanks your kid first.

                      As for the myocarditis, yes it can happen after covid but also very rare, and you have to put in the chance your kid never gets covid in the first place which I would bet tips the odds toward not getting the vax at all.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Paul Zuvella View Post

                        I’m going to try once more to explain. Lets say we have a bunch of doctors and a bottle of liquid. Doctors agree its ok for you to drink one cup of that liquid, but two cups is out of the question, they say it’s dangerous and you might not even need it.
                        Next week, same bottle. Doctors tell you its ok to let your kid take a few sips. What? No thanks your kid first.
                        Doctors also agree that drinking too much water can poison you, but I bet you still let your kids drink water.

                        I understand your concern, but just because consuming too much of something is bad, doesn't automatically mean that consuming any amount of that same something is also equally bad.
                        Stay "We" my friends

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Tyler Durden View Post

                          Doctors also agree that drinking too much water can poison you, but I bet you still let your kids drink water.

                          I understand your concern, but just because consuming too much of something is bad, doesn't automatically mean that consuming any amount of that same something is also equally bad.
                          C’mon we are talking about a substance that didn’t even exist until recently. A substance that although rare, has literally killed grown ups with a single dose.




                          Comment


                            I have appointments for my kids on Saturday!!!! 🥰
                            "Our work continues, the fight goes on, and the big dreams never die." -- Elizabeth Warren

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Paul Zuvella View Post
                              C’mon we are talking about a substance that didn’t even exist until recently. A substance that although rare, has literally killed grown ups with a single dose.



                              Fentanyl?
                              "Our work continues, the fight goes on, and the big dreams never die." -- Elizabeth Warren

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Paul Zuvella View Post

                                I’m going to try once more to explain. Lets say we have a bunch of doctors and a bottle of liquid. Doctors agree its ok for you to drink one cup of that liquid, but two cups is out of the question, they say it’s dangerous and you might not even need it.
                                Next week, same bottle. Doctors tell you its ok to let your kid take a few sips. What? No thanks your kid first.

                                As for the myocarditis, yes it can happen after covid but also very rare, and you have to put in the chance your kid never gets covid in the first place which I would bet tips the odds toward not getting the vax at all.
                                Very simply, this isn't how medical research works. I've explained that. It's not a difficult concept - the doctors would want evidence that there's a benefit to the second bottle before they recommend it.

                                Regarding myocarditis - simply - NO. That's why they recommended the vaccine for kids - the benefits outweigh the risks. That's precisely the criteria that is used to approve medicines and vaccines.

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