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2021-2022 Off Season Thread

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    Originally posted by RoyWilliams View Post

    Guy who will finish #2 in the cy young voting is not a #2?
    Yeh Cole didn’t have the best 2nd half and didn’t deliver in the WC game but his body of work for the full season was absolutely #1 stuff.

    the question is what will he be going forward with our spider tact which seemed to make home super elite.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

    Comment


      Originally posted by bucky View Post

      No. I made this decision at the end of the season. I watched post season to watch Seager. I like what I saw when we move Torres to 2nd and Ursehla to SS and want to play Volpe later this year. I wish he was playing in AFL. Seager will be our SS for 4-5 years at 20M+. With Seager we will be spending 100M+ for 5-6 players and only 1 is a SP (and probably trade Volpe). Stanton and Judge may be 50M! Then Brian trades and goes to bargain bin. I want balance on how we allocate the money - where we spend this off season.

      I am saying I don't want Seager and posted his numbers but a catcher and #2.

      (I think) Stanton was MVP the year before we got him. Everybody (but Art) thought it was great. (I used Art because I follow him but there were others)

      Everybody here wants him, Brian wants a SS, I don't agree.
      I loved the Stanton trade but I gotta say there were a hell of a lot more nay sayers than just Art on that deal.
      Baseball is life;
      the rest is just details.

      Comment


        Originally posted by JLJ81 View Post

        Cole could change my mind if he shows he can consistently dominate without the sticky stuff. The enforcement officially started June 21st. Cole had a 4.12 ERA after June 21st.
        Yes question marks for sure, hard to say what pitcher he’ll be going forward but the stuff is there even without the spider tack, gotta hope he figures out how to get the most out of his stuff in the off-season without the sticky stuff.

        his velocity and spin rates were still elite without the spider tack, his command just wasn’t the same. He’ll need to fix that if he wants to improve on his likely 2nd place CY young finish this year.
        Baseball is life;
        the rest is just details.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
          Yes question marks for sure, hard to say what pitcher he’ll be going forward but the stuff is there even without the spider tack, gotta hope he figures out how to get the most out of his stuff in the off-season without the sticky stuff.

          his velocity and spin rates were still elite without the spider tack, his command just wasn’t the same. He’ll need to fix that if he wants to improve on his likely 2nd place CY young finish this year.
          I'm hoping that some alternative solution is negotiated in the CBA prior to the season, where something more grippy than rosin and less sticky than super glue can be agreed upon and provided to all pitchers. No more asking permission from umpires to wet your fingertips. Significantly increase the penalties for unapproved foreign substances. Rather than checking belts and such nonsense during games, randomly remove some baseballs from play during each pitcher's appearance and send them for immediate, on-premises testing.

          It would seem like this isn't some gargantuan problem that cannot be solved. Baseball is so bad at getting ahead of these things. It still shocks me frankly that they instituted rule changes and controls in the middle of a season when this was a poorly kept secret known around baseball for years.

          Comment


            Originally posted by RoyWilliams View Post

            Why? i can understand not wanting him back but Cole was a jerk about it and then later said he was sorry. Gardner did nothing wrong.
            That’s simply not correct.
            “Nobody teaches life anything.” - Gabriel García Márquez

            Comment


              Originally posted by bucky View Post

              See the above post it was a mistake. I posted his post season numbers. We don't agree.
              You're right, we don't agree.
              NYYFANS: See you on the other side!

              Comment


                Originally posted by hhill View Post

                Nothing great about that rotation.
                Sevy , health?
                Monty , a 4 or 5 starter...make him throw strikes and he is very hittable
                Cortes, a long reliever, doubt his work is reproducible, a 4 or 5
                Taillon, health?

                I dont see a 2 or 3.
                Yeah Im not impressed with the rotation either. Cole is probably a #2 without the stickum. Sevy is Cory Kluber without the track record. Monty is a #4. Im rooting fot Cortez but wouldnt be shocked if he ended the season with an era over 5 as the mop up guy in the bullpen.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Paul Zuvella View Post

                  Yeah Im not impressed with the rotation either. Cole is probably a #2 without the stickum. Sevy is Cory Kluber without the track record. Monty is a #4. Im rooting fot Cortez but wouldnt be shocked if he ended the season with an era over 5 as the mop up guy in the bullpen.
                  Before I abandon hope on Cole and just draw the easy statistical straight line from June 21 until the end of the season that everyone seems to be drawing, I'd like some more scrutiny on how he managed that 8 start, 50 inning, 2.34 ERA stretch under the restrictions before he hurt his hamstring. It wasn't a continuous, homogeneous slog of suckage from ban to season end, it was more like 3 starts of suckage, 8 starts of excellence, then hamstring injury and suck for the duration.

                  Rest of the rotation doesn't do a lot for me. I guess Montgomery was quietly solid but if he's your #2 ....
                  I hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd, when they said "sit down" I stood up.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ojo View Post

                    That’s simply not correct.
                    What did Gardner do besides wearing the pine tar on the cap? All the accounts I've seen limit themselves to that.

                    Kind of an insight into the Boone clubhouse though that this becomes a cause celebre. In the early Torre clubhouse, Girardi takes those two into a room and mediates it and it ends there, the media never even finds out.

                    I hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd, when they said "sit down" I stood up.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by HelloNewman View Post
                      What did Gardner do besides wearing the pine tar on the cap? All the accounts I've seen limit themselves to that.

                      Kind of an insight into the Boone clubhouse though that this becomes a cause celebre. In the early Torre clubhouse, Girardi takes those two into a room and mediates it and it ends there, the media never even finds out.
                      Simple resolution: Gardner shouldn't be on the team anymore. He acts in private (insensitive) the way he struts towards the plate: like he's bigger and better than he is.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by newhampfan View Post

                        Simple resolution: Gardner shouldn't be on the team anymore. He acts in private (insensitive) the way he struts towards the plate: like he's bigger and better than he is.
                        He shouldn't be on the team anymore because he's become bad at baseball. Whether he's sensitive and empathetic and pleasing to Dr. Phil isn't interesting to me.

                        Still trying to find out what supposedly went on beyond the sticky stuff on the cap. Did he pull this right after a game where Cole got rocked?
                        I hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd, when they said "sit down" I stood up.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
                          If Montgomery is their 4 or 5 starter next year they probably win 105 games. he threw 157 IP of 3.89 ERA ball with a 3.69 FIP, struck out more than a batter an inning and had better than a 3:1 K:BB ratio combined with one of the better exit velocities among starting pitcher. I expect good things from Monty next year. And he’ll be another year removed from TJS

                          im not convinced Cortes can repeat his insane pop up rate but If that is reproducible no reason he can’t succeed.

                          Sevy looked good In limited action but I’m concerned about his ability to Handel a full starter work
                          Load next year

                          tailion is questionable to be ready for start Os sesson
                          MY point re Monty wasnt clear. I'm staying with this rotation while he should be a #4 or #5 starter he would be a #2 starter given the risk aspects of the others. Another words there is no #2 and no clear #3.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by RoyWilliams View Post

                            Guy who will finish #2 in the cy young voting is not a #2?
                            Cole has to prove he has control of his pitches without sticky stuff. He was up and down after that.
                            In the biggest game of the year, he came up short. (3 innings?)

                            Comment


                              There was an article recently that Cole was working with MLB on a susbtance that pitchers can use for a better grip.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by RoyWilliams View Post

                                Guy who will finish #2 in the cy young voting is not a #2?
                                Originally posted by hhill View Post

                                I was giving Cole the benefit of the doubt as to #1. He's had issues late this yr and has to prove himself.
                                Any CY consideration he had was due to the first half of the season.

                                Since June 3, 2021 (ban of foreign substances)
                                After the ban : 4.15 ERA 1.211 WHIP, .238 BAA, .704OPSA, 19HR in 19 GS. ~ 5.2 IP/GS
                                Before the ban: 1.78ERA, 0.849 WHIP, .198 BAA, .302 OPSA, 5HR in 11 GS, ~6.1 IP/GS

                                Look at the difference in those numbers. That's unhittable #1 vs #4 pitcher that can give you dome depth (and honestly, if he wasn't Cole, I bet he would have been given less leash).
                                Those second half numbers are the worst for any of the starters outside of German and Taillon (and it's basically tied with Taillon) over the full season. If that 19 games is going to be even close to representative of what we can expect, he's the 3rd or 4th best starting pitcher on the team.

                                That and there weren't any other good pitchers in the AL this season. I mean, Cole is likely shoe in for 2nd with a 133ERA+.
                                For reference, that's his lowest ERA+ by a long shot and tied for his second best place in CY. He came in second in 2019 with a 185 ERA+. That's a HUGE difference.

                                2018- 144 (5th)
                                2019- 185 (2)
                                2020- 151 (4)
                                2021-133 (2)

                                Just one more reason why the Yankees blew an incredible opportunity to get to the WS. The AL was incredibly weak this season.


                                edit: Cole's second half is just about 100 ERA+, maybe a little bit higher. His ERA+ for the last two years with the Pirates was 100 and 107. When he went to Houston it jumped to 144, 185.

                                A competent GM should realize Cole cannot be counted on as a #1 starter and one else is even a strong candidate to pitch the whole season- let alone effectively.
                                Q: Who’s the guy on your roster that would have been overlooked if not for analytics? CASHMAN: Ronald Torreyes. He’s an analytical darling.

                                Comment

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